BMW? are they loosing the performance advantage they once had? - Page 2

**Dani Filth** · 2 Jun 2005, 10:12 (Ref:1317837)

they use a 7 speed gearbox .for a few years no .. only Renault uses the 6-speed one

BootsOntheSide · 2 Jun 2005, 10:57 (Ref:1317883)

I don't really rate Sam Michael either, especially his tendency to lean very heavily towards one driver. Certainly someone deserves credit for the recent turnaraound, but I suspect they will be found wanting in Canada, and must be grateful that the old Hockenheim is gone - it seems like a long time ago that they went into that race as automatic favourites.

Glen · 2 Jun 2005, 11:18 (Ref:1317900)

I suspect that there was a tendency in recent years to give BMW power too much credit for the (admittedly limited) success of the Williams cars. The assumption among fans is that pure power makes a great deal of difference, but the experience of the Renault cars of recent years proves that assumption wrong, as does the BAR story up to 2003 (the Renaults being very underpowered but making up for it through the chassis, the BARs having plenty of Honda poke but losing out in other areas). When Williams have done well it hasn't necessarily at circuits that reward bhp over all else, which proves that their chassis and aero are far better than a cursury glance at their classic "boxy" car would lead you to believe. I think there is a tendency to look at their cars and just assume without evidence that they aren't the last word aerodynamically (compare a Williams to a Ferrari/Renault/McLaren, all of which are amazing swoopy marvels) and therefore an accompanying tendency to give al the credit to BMW.

I was reading on GP2005.com that many in the Williams organisation are starting to feel that BMW aren't interested in delivering results for the remainder of this year, because BMW would prefer the team/supplier relationship to continue to wither and therefore make the split easier when the time comes. There certainly is a lack of development on the current engine, and in modern F1 that is like stepping back every few races, because rapid and frequent advances are the norm these days.

mixxer · 2 Jun 2005, 14:08 (Ref:1318095)

Quote:

I don't really rate Sam Michael either, especially his tendency to lean very heavily towards one driver.

Which driver is that ? What is your source ? Is it just your opinion ?
Some people cant help themselves can they

BootsOntheSide · 2 Jun 2005, 17:49 (Ref:1318301)

Sam enver got on with JPM, and always seemed to work in Ralf's favour slightly. I love the wayn you assumed I meant Webber.

mixxer · 2 Jun 2005, 19:13 (Ref:1318396)

Actually Boots I was thinking it was another 10 tenths conspiracy theory and just for the record Im a F1 fan and dont really have a interest in the drivers more interested in the techmical/mechanical side of things, though it was nice of you to assume Im a Webber fan because I come from Australia

gadgit · 2 Jun 2005, 20:10 (Ref:1318453)

After going to Silverstone today for the F1 testing it was interesting to hear and see the cars coming out of the final bends before the main straight.
The BMW seems to bog down with the traction control, and the Red Bull team sounds just the same.

The McLarens and Renaults seem to have uninterupted power, and so does the Toyota which appears to rev with ease. BAR also seems smooth on the power out the bends.

The Jordan sounds like an old donkey with the traction control as it roars out onto the straight.
The Ferrari revs and pulls smooth as well.

This I'm sure is BMW'/ Williams problem !!! they seem to take a lifetime to get on the power.
Perhaps I should ring them up and let them know ?

The Mclaren is by far the finest car at the moment and the figures below show the results of all their efforts !!

Pos. Driver Team Tires Time Laps
1 K. Räikkönen McLaren 01:18.140 100
2 P. de la Rosa McLaren 01:19.211 67
3 J. Button BAR 01:19.596 93
4 F. Alonso Renault 01:19.770 83
5 D. Coulthard Red Bull 01:19.773 70
6 G. Fisichella Renault 01:19.912 97
7 J. Trulli Toyota 01:19.970 102
8 T. Sato BAR 01:20.143 159
9 R. Barrichello Ferrari 01:20.273 76
10 C. Klien Red Bull 01:20.547 90
11 R. Schumacher Toyota 01:20.652 68
12 N. Heidfeld Williams 01:20.949 91
13 M. Webber Williams 01:21.099 75
14 T. Monteiro Jordan 01:23.166 103

3 hours of F1 for FREE (not my figures, copied from another source) but they seem to represent what happened.

Gadgit.

Nismo · 2 Jun 2005, 23:46 (Ref:1318588)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixxer

Which driver is that ? What is your source ? Is it just your opinion ?
Some people cant help themselves can they

Why are you getting a bit upset here? I too think that sam micheals supports webber more so than heidfeld?? you know country men sticking together and stuff..

im sure you would do the same!

Nismo · 3 Jun 2005, 00:05 (Ref:1318596)

So who is leading the williams aero team at the moment? they got rid of the italian Antonia at the start of the season?

I think what they need is to build up a strong aero team, every year its the same story they play catch up for 6 or 7 races so they are always ona back foot. They have struggled since willis left for bar, and previous to that when newey left. I heard they were trying to lure gascoin from toyota...hmm that would be nice if they could!

Chucky · 3 Jun 2005, 01:31 (Ref:1318615)

"BMW? are they loosing the performance advantage they once had?"

What do you mean losing? It's more like lost! Some time ago at that.

Strangely enough the loss of performance coincided with a major revision to engine regulations which was fortunately able to be deflected onto untried/unproven drivers.

Sounds like big business PR too me. "It couldn't be our engines. I dunno about these drivers though."

mac · 3 Jun 2005, 02:21 (Ref:1318625)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Sam enver got on with JPM, and always seemed to work in Ralf's favour slightly. I love the wayn you assumed I meant Webber.

So JPM is the happy-go-lucky guy that everyone gets on with then?

Please.

Did it ever enter your mind that maybe Juan Pablo did not get along with Sam?

He's not the easiest guy to get along with ........ and neither is Ralf for that matter.

mixxer · 3 Jun 2005, 05:23 (Ref:1318655)

Quote:

Why are you getting a bit upset here? I too think that sam micheals supports webber more so than heidfeld?? you know country men sticking together and stuff.. im sure you would do the same!

Quote:

Actually Boots I was thinking it was another 10 tenths conspiracy theory and just for the record Im a F1 fan and dont really have a interest in the drivers more interested in the techmical/mechanical side of things, though it was nice of you to assume Im a Webber fan because I come from Australia

Question asked and already answered

hgmonaro · 3 Jun 2005, 05:55 (Ref:1318665)

Just reading Motorsport News fortnightly 'magazine' (Australia's 'Autosport'... sorry AA!) and there's a story that mentions Williams is one of the few that still uses a 6 speed. Someone must know the answer? There's also an interview with Mario Theissen regarding the engines and that they're hoping to step up the performance of the engine, that they've been aiming for reliability so far.

Sodemo · 3 Jun 2005, 10:22 (Ref:1318826)

Sam comes across as a very serious no messing around sort of a chap, while I think JPM probably likes to rock the boat both in a jovial way and a serious one when he is ****ed off.
Maybe they just didn't gel, hell I hated some of the guys I was forced to work with in my last job.

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