[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bella

lotterer has been a massive liability in formula e at increasingly frequent times too.

has estre run in prototypes before? obviously it's not really an issue in the slightest when you're just *that good*, just wondering.

Its interesting you mention this. After years of admiring Andre in sportscars, i was somewhat dissapointed with his driving in Formula E, im not sure why theres been such a shift in his driving

[gert]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I think Jani will actually have an important role to play, albeit not necessarily in a factory seat. Who better to mentor Yifei Ye than a member of Ye's host family who also has significant LMP experience?

Good thinking!

-

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Estre and Vanthoor surely are in with a good chance?
Estre / Vanthoor / Cameron / Nasr / Mako are the most likely to me

I think I agree.

-

And of course, Bamber, Tandy and Hulkenberg have taught us that prototype experience is interesting but not completeely necessary

[canaglia]

In my opinion to drive a lmp car is way easier and more enjoyable for top pro drivers than drive a GT

[bella]

never driven either, so i couldn’t possibly comment or pretend to know.

but if one’s easier to drive it means you have to be millimetre perfect to be quicker. which is harder to do. swings and roundabouts…

[Richard117]

What about Harry Tincknell? He is under contract by Multimatic, maybe involved in the development of the Porsche and Audi Multimatic chassis?

[rubberduck]

Originally Posted by Richard117

What about Harry Tincknell? He is under contract by Multimatic, maybe involved in the development of the Porsche and Audi Multimatic chassis?

Was thinking the same, even more so since he's playing obvious low-key about his plans.
With Pascal Zurlinden onboarding Multimatic at the same time I get some Porsche-contracts-and-later-takes-over-Manthey-vibes, but for prototypes this time.

[JoeW04]

I’ve read in a few places Campbell and Jaminet have seats for LMDH

[canaglia]

Tincknell is multimatic factory driver and is managed by mcnish... if mcnish has still some active role in audi sport managment I think he could push tincknell to audi WEC program

[Mike E]

A couple more pics of the car and confirmation of the engine configuration which is no real surprise.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/...l-testing.html

[canaglia]

"by a production-based twin turbo V8 of as-yet unrevealed capacity"


what's the deal to keep secret displacement when it will be one of first things reported in bop bulletins...

[Mike E]

Releasing information slowly means getting more write ups in the media

[Ferrari333SP]

So basically, the Porsche, Audi, and future Lamborghini cars will essentially be the same car, using the same engine unit for all three brands. Fun....

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

So basically, the Porsche, Audi, and future Lamborghini cars will essentially be the same car, using the same engine unit for all three brands. Fun....

Well, the shared multimatic+porsche platform for VW brands lmdhs was quite known from long time... it's still unclear if audi and lambo will have different bodywork or not.
Funny side of the matter is that V8 powering porsche lmdh should be a derivated unit of late '90s VW old V8, which production and FSI/turbo integration was up to audi for decades until few years ago when production of this V8 was tasked to porsche that used the platform for panamera, cayenne and lamborghini urus engines. Everything in family.

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Well, the shared multimatic+porsche platform for VW brands lmdhs was quite known from long time... it's still unclear if audi and lambo will have different bodywork or not.
Funny side of the matter is that V8 powering porsche lmdh should be a derivated unit of late '90s VW old V8, which production and FSI/turbo integration was up to audi for decades until few years ago when production of this V8 was tasked to porsche that used the platform for panamera, cayenne and lamborghini urus engines. Everything in family.

Yeah I remember seeing at the beginning of this process they'd be sharing things, but to finally see it in more detail just makes me less interested in these cars than before. It won't really matter which car you root for, as all three will essentially be the same car.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Yeah I remember seeing at the beginning of this process they'd be sharing things, but to finally see it in more detail just makes me less interested in these cars than before. It won't really matter which car you root for, as all three will essentially be the same car.

Kinda of, I too think that VW lmhds in their concept are not that different than kit cars, but as wrote before, speaking about the V8 alone, that engine was already shared between audi, porsche and lamborghini (and bentley) road cars before being shared also in VW lmdhs.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Yeah I remember seeing at the beginning of this process they'd be sharing things, but to finally see it in more detail just makes me less interested in these cars than before. It won't really matter which car you root for, as all three will essentially be the same car.

You have literally just defined what brought manufacturer interest. That's the ENTIRE reason for the ruleset from the beginning.

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

You have literally just defined what brought manufacturer interest. That's the ENTIRE reason for the ruleset from the beginning.

Which is why I've been a much bigger fan of LMH from the beginning; really nothing interesting about seeing kit cars race, versus the diversity we'll see with the LMH cars

[chernaudi]

And yet LMDH cars outnumber LMH cars by two to one. Not to mention that VAG are doing a less elaborate version of what Audi Sport used to do with their LMP cars, which is get a proprietary/quasi-proprietary design, have someone else build the chassis under license, and there you go. Big difference is that the Mulitimatic chassis will be used by 2-3 makes instead of just one and in theory should have a LMP2 version in a couple of years.



Not to mention that the much cherished Lola-Aston Martin was just a bone stock Lola LMP1 chassis with an AMR engine and gearbox shoe-horned into it and given proprietary bodywork. And the ganishing of teeth over the Toyota GR010 looking like an overgrown LMP1.

[canaglia]

Yeah always said that lola-aston in its concept was the first dpi ante litteram.
Anyway guess there is a little difference, audi lmp1 cars were designed by audi sport and third parties like dallara and ycom were hired only to produce carbon tubs probably because audi hadn't knowledge and tools to produce composite parts since audi never made road carbon tub cars.
Porsche lmdh is different because multimatic probably did most of design of the car, as they already did with ford gt, both race and road car.
Audi and probably lamborghini will get their more or less bodywork customized cars just to let VW promoting their brands for "cheap".
Anyway I always have my concerns about 2023/2024 WEC performances...
LMH and lmdh are cars that should be equally heavy and equally aero efficient, but LMH are AWD and have 700hp all the time, lmdh RWD and 640hp + short ERS boost releases.

[Pandamasque]

An important distinction is that Lola-Aston had an Aston V12 and nothing else did. The Bentley Speed 8 had its distinct chassis.
Meanwhile the VW triplets are set to share everything and will only differ in styling cues. To boot, they're powered by an SUV-sourced engine, that being TT V8 – the most common and most boring-sounding configuration imaginable, or second most boring after i4 turbo.

Honestly, if someone said, you can have these 3 VW brands in LMDh or just the Porsche LMH powered by a flat-6 (still with customer cars), I'd pick the latter, rather than pretending that it matters which set of stickers wins the race.

[broadrun96]

Flat 6 was never going to be the option so wishing for it wouldn't get you anywhere. Your options were this or Porsche in Formula E only, that's it.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Flat 6 was never going to be the option so wishing for it wouldn't get you anywhere. Your options were this or Porsche in Formula E only, that's it.

They never ask me anyway so I can wish whatever I want knowing it won't happen either way.

[canaglia]

a flat6 is basically a 180 degrees V engine, I think it's almost impossible to fit one in a lmp-style prototype without big reworking of rear subframes and as consequence suspensions etc... Not to mention that to reach >600hp would be required a turbo flat6 making everything more unrealistic. As far I remember, last prototype using a flat6 was flying lizard riley DP back in 2011

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by canaglia

a flat6 is basically a 180 degrees V engine, I think it's almost impossible to fit one in a lmp-style prototype without big reworking of rear subframes and as consequence suspensions etc... Not to mention that to reach >600hp would be required a turbo flat6 making everything more unrealistic. As far I remember, last prototype using a flat6 was flying lizard riley DP back in 2011

There's a bit more to it than that. Flat engines have a lower centre of mass, resulting in better balance and handling than V engines. Also there is less vibration.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

There's a bit more to it than that. Flat engines have a lower centre of mass, resulting in better balance and handling than V engines. Also there is less vibration.

Sure, flat engines have lower centre of mass because their block have a shorter height and most of parts are distributed horizontally rather than vertically as V layout engines. Biggest problem is that flat engines are insanely wide which is a big handicap considering racing engines aim to be as more compact as possible. Flat/Boxer/V180^ engines have almost disappeared from street cars, are used in porsche and subaru mainly as a heritage trademark than else. Funny side of the matter is that everyone usually relates flat engines to porsche, when flat engines were actually commonly used by ferrari as well.