IMSA Race 2016 Mosport

[Matt]

Originally Posted by OmerRS

Bring a German Saloon with a big turbo V8 and let the BOP do the rest of it for you.

thats the whole point of GT3 homie.

build a car, send it to france, they work it all out for you.

[OmerRS]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Bmw m6 win in GTD. Ferrari,audi,lambo,viper & porsche build proper sportscars,while bmw comes in with a saloon in gtd and gtlm.

Originally Posted by Matt

thats the whole point of GT3 homie.

build a car, send it to france, they work it all out for you.

I think that formula also works for GTLM too. BMW M6 has lot more power and 100+ litre fuel tank, so they are 0.5 sec faster than anyone.

[Matt]

It also weighs a whole lot more.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by OmerRS

I think that formula also works for GTLM too. BMW M6 has lot more power and 100+ litre fuel tank, so they are 0.5 sec faster than anyone.

Can't blame BoP for this one. The #67 Ford won that with great driving and strategy today. Briscoe/Westbrook are THE best driving pair in IMSA this year (including Proto teams). Makes me surprised that it was the Muller/Hand team that won Le Mans and not them.

R.L.L. BMW just can't seem to close the deal they always fade in that last stint. Porsche does not have the horsepower to compete plain and simple. Glad that Turner got it done though!

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Bmw m6 win in GTD. Ferrari,audi,lambo,viper & porsche build proper sportscars,while bmw comes in with a saloon in gtd and gtlm.

"Saloon"? You could say that about Bentley and Nissan too maybe. Its great that BMW is here. Awesome that Turner won today. Now R.L.L. needs to figure how to run a whole race.

[TF110]

Good race in gt, the rest was disappointing. Questionable driving standards by a few cars today. The #55 was robbed by an issue, again and the #70 Mazda was nowhere.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TF110

Good race in gt, the rest was disappointing. Questionable driving standards by a few cars today. The #55 was robbed by an issue, again and the #70 Mazda was nowhere.

to be fair, only Nunez was fast. Bomarito fell back from the time he got behind the wheel.

[Akrapovic]

The Bentley isn't a saloon. It's just a fat coupe.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by joeb

to be fair, only Nunez was fast. Bomarito fell back from the time he got behind the wheel.

Agreed. Nunez is clearly faster than all the other Mazda drivers. Mazda in general is kind of laughable at this point tho. Maybe spend more time testing parts and practicing pit stops and less time trying to look like a winner with throw back paint jobs. I like cheering on the underdog, but these guys have yet to deserve a win. It's painful listening to Doonan anymore then watching a terrible pit stop or a car break five mins later.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

"Saloon"? You could say that about Bentley and Nissan too maybe. Its great that BMW is here.

Both the bentley and bmw are over weight sedans/saloon/coupe what ever that don't belong and are not sports cars.at least the Nissan GT-R can compare to ferrari,corvette,audi,and porsche in production car form.

It's great bmw is here and all but it's always been with an over weight sedan waiver mobile that needs bop help.be it an M3,M6,or the V8 Z4,a slap in the face to all the manufacture who build real legit sports cars.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by schmidder

Agreed. Nunez is clearly faster than all the other Mazda drivers. Mazda in general is kind of laughable at this point tho. Maybe spend more time testing parts and practicing pit stops and less time trying to look like a winner with throw back paint jobs. I like cheering on the underdog, but these guys have yet to deserve a win. It's painful listening to Doonan anymore then watching a terrible pit stop or a car break five mins later.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

It's not really even 'Mazda'. Not sure how much testing is allowed, or if it'd even be beneficial to them with next year's new car.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

It's great bmw is here and all but it's always been with an over weight sedan waiver mobile that needs bop help.be it an M3,M6,or the V8 Z4,a slap in the face to all the manufacture who build real legit sports cars.

I'm willing to bet most of those manufactures really don't care and just see it as another car on the track to beat.

Y'all really put way too much thought into some of this stuff.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Both the bentley and bmw are over weight sedans/saloon/coupe what ever that don't belong and are not sports cars.at least the Nissan GT-R can compare to ferrari,corvette,audi,and porsche in production car form.

It's great bmw is here and all but it's always been with an over weight sedan waiver mobile that needs bop help.be it an M3,M6,or the V8 Z4,a slap in the face to all the manufacture who build real legit sports cars.

With bop, does it really matter the reason why an adjustment is needed? The whole formula for GT3 (and now GTE) is based on making any car that shows up able to compete. IMSA has made the Corvette competitive this week, does that speak negatively on the corvette? BOP simply tries to equalize the cars, doesn't really matter the reason, could be large size, weight, frontal area, fuel consumption, power, stint length, etc.

My point is claiming one car is unworthy in this formula makes no sense, since every car gets adjusted during some point of the season.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by joeb

With bop, does it really matter the reason why an adjustment is needed? The whole formula for GT3 (and now GTE) is based on making any car that shows up able to compete. IMSA has made the Corvette competitive this week, does that speak negatively on the corvette? BOP simply tries to equalize the cars, doesn't really matter the reason, could be large size, weight, frontal area, fuel consumption, power, stint length, etc.

My point is claiming one car is unworthy in this formula makes no sense, since every car gets adjusted during some point of the season.

But that's not the true and pure competition way, don't'cha'know? You gotta spend cubic dollars to beat the other cars and if you're too slow, just spend more money to beat them.

It's the dumbest argument made by the worst kind of fans, imo. You don't see those fans at the racetracks. They're not fun people to be around during a race.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Matt

But that's not the true and pure competition way, don't'cha'know? You gotta spend cubic dollars to beat the other cars and if you're too slow, just spend more money to beat them.

It's the dumbest argument made by the worst kind of fans, imo. You don't see those fans at the racetracks. They're not fun people to be around during a race.

Calling people dumb because you disagree with their view is not a smart way to go either. You obviously understand the opposite viewpoint, why belittle the person who holds it? That tells us more about you than it does about them. This is a forum to discuss, you can agree and disagree with people. Doesn't make their views less important than yours. It also doesn't make the person less than you.

[Matt]

I'm just extremely tired of people consistently complaining about stuff that really has no merit.

It's 2016. You can't just have one manufacture fly off into the distance and let everyone else languish behind and expect a series to grow. Manufactures don't have the money they had 25 years ago to be pumping into motorsport to "make a better car." They build what they want to see marketed, and hope it's quick out of the box. If not they know they'll get some help to remain competitive. I'd much rather see 5 manufactures competing for a win with some balancing help from the series than just one shooting off into the distance and running the other manufactures out because they cannot afford to keep pumping money into something they can't get a return on.

[chernaudi]

I for one feel that it's on the onus of the teams to try what they can to win on their own merit--you know, to be the best, you have to beat the best--before crying for BOP help from the sanctioning body.

But at the same time, why is the BMW M6 any different than the partial tube frame DeKon Chevy Monza IMSA GT cars that were built as a low cost way to compete with Porsche 911 turbos in IMSA GT in the late '70s and early '80s?

It does IMO work both ways.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by schmidder

What factory drive? I don't remember this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

https://youtu.be/1LKbQPx7l9M?t=7m30s

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Both the bentley and bmw are over weight sedans/saloon/coupe what ever that don't belong and are not sports cars.at least the Nissan GT-R can compare to ferrari,corvette,audi,and porsche in production car form.

I know this isn't the most scientific method, but it's good enough for the point being made. Laptimes of the Top Gear Test Track -

McLaren MP4-12C - 1:16.2
Ferrari 458 - 1:19.1
Nissan GT-R - 1:19.7
Corvette ZR1 - 1.20.4
Audi R8 V10 - 1.21.6
Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3
Bentley Continental Supersports - 1:24.9
BMW Z4 M - 1:26.0

There's no M6 or modern Aston gone around it (DB9 was slower than all listed, apparently no Vantage has went round), and no modern Lambo lap either. Also no 488 or 650S.

But it shows the Bentley is closer to the Audi R10 then the Audi R10 is to the McLaren and the Z4 is even further back. So really if we're using real worlds, then the case is that everything is miles off of each other (hence why we have the BoP), and the Bentley is a more appropriate car than the Z4 if we're to "compare" production car form speeds.

[RWill2073]

Wow, those corvettes sure did a lot of developing over the last week.......... Gtlm results feel artificial every week now. I have nonclue who the best car or team is, only who games the system the best or who got the breaks this week. Success ballast only please. At least then results would make sense and be clear.

Mazda is a complete joke. Ways they mismanaged yesterday:

Not finding out about a problem that just so happened to crop up right before the race. Do they not check things beforehand? I get the feeling that rather than going over details with a fine tooth comb like well run teams, they just don't think about some things until they break.

Bomarito is clearly not on the pace of Nunez. This was clear at Laguna secs and Watkins Glen that I remember and likely more. So why not take your best driver out after the minimum drive time and bring in your slower driver to close it out?

If the race is six hours, it will break after 5. If it's 2 hours, it'll break after one. Just embarrassing.

Haven't had a quality put stop when it mattered all year. Do they practice these things?

On the bright side, they're at least sparing us John doonan's clown ass during the mid race report now. Instead we hear from Nunez who was inexplicably done for the day.

I will say that prototype bop is just about perfect. It is extremely hard for p2s to pass, as it should be, since when they do, they can check out. Makes for some good racing and gives both p2s and dps a fair shot. P2 teams have only themselves to blame for the last two races.

[MaskedRacer]

[QUOTE=RWill2073;3658296]Wow, those corvettes sure did a lot of developing over the last week.......... Gtlm results feel artificial every week now. I have nonclue who the best car or team is, only who games the system the best or who got the breaks this week. Success ballast only please. At least then results would make sense and be clear.

[QUOTE]

I disagree with this comment about GTLM for this round at CTMP. Ford won with good strategy and great driving from the best duo in the series Briscoe/Westbrook. Truly Porsche has problems with their speed right now. They got to work that one out themselves. Risi Ferrari missed the setup at CTMP and the #100 BMW is snake bitten for sure. I think we are going to see close racing in there for the rest of the year. GT was much better than prototype at CTMP.

Lime Rock will be VERY interesting. Never have we seen GTLM/GTD/LMPC only. And a bull ring like LRP. Hold on folks that one will be very unpredictable.

[Maelochs]

RWill2073's point is that the BoP varies so much from race to race it is obvious the winners win by luck. Corvette was useless at the last race and nearly won this one---the only difference was the .2-mm restrictor increase. Not chassis development, not clever strategy, not time on the dyno or using CFD programs ... just BoP.

BoP might have been closer to correct this week--Porsche might disagree. But the question is, what will it be next week? "May the best car and team win" means nothing, because the fact is, "The best BoP will win."

IO still enjoy the racing, but I do not try to fool myself about what I am watching.

[joeb]

Check out this interview with Ron Fellows at Mosport. John almost lost the car and Ron looked uncomfortable as a passenger!

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...ound-ctmp.html

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Watching the broadcast on YouTube at 39 minutes during the 55 mazda joke of a pit stop.the car was dropped while the right rear was going on even the pit reporter points it out.looks like the failure might have been damage from that embarrassingly joke of a pit stop.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Watching the broadcast on YouTube at 39 minutes during the 55 mazda joke of a pit stop.the car was dropped while the right rear was going on even the pit reporter points it out.looks like the failure might have been damage from that embarrassingly joke of a pit stop.

Heads rolling you think over there with the SpeedSource team? Granted I don't think changing staff for tire changers would get press so we might not know. Just speculation.