Commodore Gone

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Trevor

German 4cyl FWD rubbish

Just because a car is a German 4cyl FWD doesn't mean it's rubbish, both the VW Golf GTI and VW Passat are much loved, as are the Ford Fiesta ST and Ford Focus ST, also the Mini Cooper, Clubman and Countryman plus the equivalent BMW 1 series (the new FWD)... All engineered in Germany and all very nice cars.

As the BMW 1 series moving from RWD to FWD shows, most drivers have no need for RWD.

[Juarez Jed]

The German Commodore is a more than competent well made and well engineered alternative to the Mondeo, Camry, Sonata , Optima, Mazda6 & such. But buyers weren' t given a reason to buy one. Have you seen the Skoda Superb Sportline for around $50k ?
The problem is that a german Commodore couldn't be marketed as Holdens image has always been based around it's Australian-ness.
There was also no halo car from HSV to give the current model a performance image. With the previous model the mainstream SV6 looked like the little brother of the SSV8.
Ford has a range of competent cars & a mixed bunch of SUV's but still only sells Mustangs in any volume. And that number is going down.
They have also had the Ranger to take on the Hilux very successfully.
Holden have had a sub-standard range of Daewoos and Chevs unsuccessfully trading on the rugged Holden image for decades now. Vehicles such as the Epica, Malibu and Acadia were answers to questions nobody was asking in the first place.
Its all well and good to say that the future is all SUV's and Light Trucks as thats where the action is but not enough people want or need the poor range of vehicles offered in this class by the Red lion.
What happens to the Corvette now after the Camaro has failed to open wallets with its exorbitant pricing compared to the Mustang ?
This is a nightmare for dealers , some of whom have been burnt not too many years ago by the sudden axing of the Opel range.
Merry Christmas

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It is funny, I saw this driving around in Melbourne too.

I saw it in a fairly small town called Glen Innes in Northern NSW.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Just because a car is a German 4cyl FWD doesn't mean it's rubbish, both the VW Golf GTI and VW Passat are much loved, as are the Ford Fiesta ST and Ford Focus ST, also the Mini Cooper, Clubman and Countryman plus the equivalent BMW 1 series (the new FWD)... All engineered in Germany and all very nice cars.

As the BMW 1 series moving from RWD to FWD shows, most drivers have no need for RWD.

they missed the target completely in Australia - Australians are buying twin cab/SUV more than anything

[Trevor]

Worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B3ZHsOdeYo

[mayhem]

He's never short of an opinion, and that video is ugly viewing for anyone associated with Holden. The future would appear grim.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B3ZHsOdeYo

He's the dip s**** to quote his own words, after that I figured the rest wasn't worth my time and had a snooze. People actually subscribe to his videos, really? The internet takes all the blame for inflicting him on the rest of the world, such a good example of Australian opinion.

[Trevor]

Just like you (just sprouted) he is entitled to his

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Just like you (just sprouted) he is entitled to his

I listened to it and found that most of it was fact, Holden is at the very bottom of the GM food chain, the local CEO can talk it up as much as he likes but he is just a puppet on a string with no real say and no real direction. Holden to GM is worthless in the whole scheme of things as they no longer derive any income from here much the same as Opel and Vauxhall were just a milestone around the GM neck.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by xrystl

I listened to it and found that most of it was fact, Holden is at the very bottom of the GM food chain, the local CEO can talk it up as much as he likes but he is just a puppet on a string with no real say and no real direction. Holden to GM is worthless in the whole scheme of things as they no longer derive any income from here much the same as Opel and Vauxhall were just a milestone around the GM neck.

He's been right in his thoughts on Holden's direction so far; and is predicting Holden will be gone in 2020.

Time will tell, soon enough.

[Casper]

You guys actually watch this bloke...seriously?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

You guys actually watch this bloke...seriously?

I didn't give him a click, he is an utter flog and if Holden had ads he would be singing their praises..

[mountainstar]

The writing was on the wall for the "Commodore" when GM sold Opel and Vauxhall to Peugeot. That platform was dead man walking. Peugeot made Opel/Vauxhall profitable this year after 20 years of losses being run by GM. Goes to show what a crummy company GM is.

Holden now is a five wheel to GM, not sure how long it's going to last.

[Forda]

Fairfax article suggesting some of the reasons why the Commodore failed, including racing fans buying vehicles other than the one they 'support':

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...13-p53jw0.html

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Forda

Fairfax article suggesting some of the reasons why the Commodore failed, including racing fans buying vehicles other than the one they 'support':

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...13-p53jw0.html

I wouldnt suggest the commodore "Failed" its been a very successful model over the journey. Times change

DO you think the falcon failed?

[mountainstar]

I think part of it is probably driven on Peugeot's end, regardless of sales, to get rid of a legacy platform from Opel's previous owner and transition everything to Peugeot platforms just as they are doing with the new Astra.

[Maggo]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think part of it is probably driven on Peugeot's end, regardless of sales, to get rid of a legacy platform from Opel's previous owner and transition everything to Peugeot platforms just as they are doing with the new Astra.

Opel Insignia is still sold in Europe.
But I assume the business case to buy a PSA owned modell and sell it as a Holden is even bad when sales numbers would be ok.

[Casper]

Both Ford and Holden failed for similar reasons, failure to read the market changes was one. That Ford has been a success as an importer is down to one model, the Ranger, without that it would be a dead duck or close to where Holden is now. I can't see their European offerings selling in sufficient numbers to ensure otherwise and the Mustang has falling sales as we speak. Looking at things in that light makes Ford a one trick pony so to speak.

[Trevor]

Over 24,000 Mustangs sold, so not too bad. Of course it was always going to be a limited market, it ain't a family car is it?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Casper

Both Ford and Holden failed for similar reasons, failure to read the market changes was one. That Ford has been a success as an importer is down to one model, the Ranger, without that it would be a dead duck or close to where Holden is now. I can't see their European offerings selling in sufficient numbers to ensure otherwise and the Mustang has falling sales as we speak. Looking at things in that light makes Ford a one trick pony so to speak.

Actually, Ford preempted the market trend for SUV's when they produced the Territory.
And to a lesser extent, Holden had a bit of a stab in the same area by offering 4x4 derivatives of the VY range.

But you're right in alluding to there being many reasons why local manufacturing became unsustainable.

Ford however had a better product range to offer as an importer, at the post-local production changeover point.

Originally Posted by Trevor

Over 24,000 Mustangs sold, so not too bad. Of course it was always going to be a limited market, it ain't a family car is it?

Yep; Ford have got two niche markets covered, with the Mustang being a solid player in the sports car sector.

Unfortunately for Holden, their plan B was relying on brand loyalty, in particular to cloak the Commodore to Insignia switcharoo tactic.

[Casper]

Why Ford did not switch the Territory to off shore production is on of life's mysteries but I guess their masters in the US knew better. It had a good following here and with a new design and using good late model technology it would have continued to be popular. A revamped Territory would have sold world wide but Ford are dumb a***s just like GM.

The Mustang has sold 24,000 in how many years? Not what I would like to rely on and the numbers will sink further as the slide has already started. It is a one trick pony whereas the Ranger is sold in many segments of the market from commercial to Recreational and everything between.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

Why Ford did not switch the Territory to off shore production is on of life's mysteries but I guess their masters in the US knew better.

Unfortunately the Territory (and Falcon) platform ONLY supports right-hand-drive. Furthermore, while much loved, the Barra inline six is an orphan engine (long estranged from Ford's global six cylinders) and certainly doesn't meet Euro 6.

Regardless, perhaps Ford (like Chevrolet) should be building their "midsize" sedan and SUV on a longitudinal engine platform? Some buyers prefer rear drive and would love that.

BUT like Chevrolet, Ford build them on transverse engine (front wheel drive based) platforms instead. (The Ford Edge SUV is just as much of a local flop as the Holden Equinox, even though American buyers like both these SUVs.)

Bear in mind that with the Taurus and Impala being front wheel drive, this makes them easier to drive in the American winter in the snow compared to a rear drive Falcon or Commodore respectively. This may be another salient point that informs Ford and GM platform choice.

Curiously, the Ford Explorer SUV is being divorced from the front wheel drive Ford Taurus and returned to its rear wheel drive roots... So maybe Americans wouldn't want a Territory after all once the engine is turned back lengthways in the Explorer?
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2019/06/18/2020-ford-explorer-real-wheel-drive/1480821001/

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

The Mustang has sold 24,000 in how many years?

Why do Ford refuse to build a sedan variant of the Mustang, called (I don't know) say the Falcon?

The Mustang's modern 10 speed auto would certainly run rings around the FG X's old fashioned 6 speed auto.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Unfortunately the Territory (and Falcon) platform ONLY supports right-hand-drive. Furthermore, while much loved, the Barra inline six is an orphan engine (long estranged from Ford's global six cylinders) and certainly doesn't meet Euro 6.

Regardless, perhaps Ford (like Chevrolet) should be building their "midsize" sedan and SUV on a longitudinal engine platform? Some buyers prefer rear drive and would love that.

BUT like Chevrolet, Ford build them on transverse engine (front wheel drive based) platforms instead. (The Ford Edge SUV is just as much of a local flop as the Holden Equinox, even though American buyers like both these SUVs.)

Bear in mind that with the Taurus and Impala being front wheel drive, this makes them easier to drive in the American winter in the snow compared to a rear drive Falcon or Commodore respectively. This may be another salient point that informs Ford and GM platform choice.

Curiously, the Ford Explorer SUV is being divorced from the front wheel drive Ford Taurus and returned to its rear wheel drive roots... So maybe Americans wouldn't want a Territory after all once the engine is turned back lengthways in the Explorer?
https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ve/1480821001/

We are all experts and in reality know nothing of the car global market. When I worked for Jaguar about a hundred years ago I suggested we should be selling a manual version of the series 3 XJ6 and was told that there was a shipment on the way. The guys who did all the market research reckoned they would not sell and they were right as they took a long time at deep discounts to move the few cars that were imported.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Some buyers prefer rear drive and would love that.

Herein lies the issue.

I think realistically, the truth is more that 'some enthusiasts prefer rear drive'.

For the manufacturers to seriously consider a switch to longitudinal, that needs to become 'the majority' of people who will actually complete a purchase of the car. Otherwise you are creating a niche product.