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Old 3 Aug 2020, 22:21 (Ref:3992785)   #301
Casper
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is a P&L business, to expect anything else would be very naive in the extreme. It is well known that support categories have come and gone due to the financial expectations of the SC promoters.


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Yeah, supercars are a clique. I said it on other threads. They will make decisions only for their own benefit, even if it's not in the best interests of motor racing in Australia overall.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 04:18 (Ref:3993911)   #302
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Yeah, it a P&L business. But fundamentally is a motor racing series. That's what even long time figures in "the business" don't get. It's also why they're often in a constant state of trying to get their head above water.

P&L can also be used to justify any decision, including those that could be to the detriment to motorsport overall.

"Businesses" attract "business people". It contributes to why there's a lame, corporate culture in supercars.

"Businesses" are also full of self interest. That's one of the underlying reputations supercars have.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 04:41 (Ref:3993913)   #303
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post

"Businesses" attract "business people". It contributes to why there's a lame, corporate culture in supercars.



"Businesses" are also full of self interest. That's one of the underlying reputations supercars have.
What, precisely do you think ARG is?

Owned and funded by "business people"

If it quacks like a duck....

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Old 9 Aug 2020, 06:32 (Ref:3993920)   #304
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Always entertaining. Thanks for stopping by.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 08:31 (Ref:3993931)   #305
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The fundamental reason the category was developed was to make people money. The instrument to do that was racing cars, sport had nothing to do with it. Any professional "sport" is the same, it is organised to make the most amount of money possible other wise it need not exist and could revert to a sport in the true sense.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 08:36 (Ref:3993932)   #306
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Yeah, it a P&L business. But fundamentally is a motor racing series. That's what even long time figures in "the business" don't get. It's also why they're often in a constant state of trying to get their head above water.

P&L can also be used to justify any decision, including those that could be to the detriment to motorsport overall.

"Businesses" attract "business people". It contributes to why there's a lame, corporate culture in supercars.

"Businesses" are also full of self interest. That's one of the underlying reputations supercars have.
As I said, a very naive view of professional racing. It should not be called Motor SPORT at all, it should be called Motor RACING to bring it up to date.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 11:32 (Ref:3993969)   #307
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
What, precisely do you think ARG is?

Owned and funded by "business people"

If it quacks like a duck....

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Oh yeah, I have to account for ARG when talking about TCR Australia.

Yes, well, there's three factors regarding TCR. There's the actual racing series, CAMS, and ARG. It's pretty close which is the weakest link between CAMS and ARG. But oddly considering CAMS is one of the factors, it may be ARG by a nose.

I can't account for any silliness from ARG (and CAMS). Had CAMS ever been a good motor racing body, ARG would've been superfluous to needs. They still are, but they've already entered the bed.

They've made some good moves, but most were a no brainer.

Lump onto the Shannons Nationals? No brainer. For 14 years, the SN were a stage for classes that typically fill a support for a feature class (which is typically touring cars).

Running a round at The Bathurst 6 Hour? No brainer. It complements the 6 Hour, and they give each other a boost in attention.

A spot on the GP supports? No brainer. Obviously not any class can get on at Albert Park, but a class of sufficient substance will. CAMS organise a meeting with the AGPC, show the merit of the class and talk to them nicely, TCR was always going to get in. I could've done it.

A designated feature event Bathurst? No Brainer. Bathurst is for ALL cars, not just 5 litre V8s. No doubt a TCR Bathurst won't be as big a deal as the 1000, but it will be a much bigger deal than another 5 litre event. It would've been completely irresponsible from all parties if TCR weren't given it.

The move to C7 is obviously a pat on the back to ARG, even if I think it's a bit premature. The inclusion of the Tasmanian circuits to counter the effects of the pandemic is impressive.

Aside from that, what you'd mostly see of TCR now I'm certain is what would've occurred anyway if CAMS were a good governing body. They could've started TCR 5 years ago, and it would've grown to what we see now or possibly better. And without the burden of having to need a commercial partner.

If TCR "fails", it'll be all down to the inadequacies of firstly ARG, then CAMS.
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Old 9 Aug 2020, 11:40 (Ref:3993972)   #308
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As I said, a very naive view of professional racing. It should not be called Motor SPORT at all, it should be called Motor RACING to bring it up to date.
Oh yeah, "professional racing". The merit of supercars as a "professional" class is another conversation. But I'll keep my opinions on that when the time comes.
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Old 10 Aug 2020, 00:16 (Ref:3994335)   #309
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If TCR "fails", it'll be all down to the inadequacies of firstly ARG, then CAMS.
But, of course, no chance that it 'fails' due to the punter in the stands deciding to vote with their wallet and watch a different competing series.
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Old 10 Aug 2020, 00:29 (Ref:3994337)   #310
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But, of course, no chance that it 'fails' due to the punter in the stands deciding to vote with their wallet and watch a different competing series.
The "market" and nothing else will decide as it did all those years ago when a similar thing occurred.
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Old 10 Aug 2020, 01:53 (Ref:3994346)   #311
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The fundamental reason the category was developed was to make people money. The instrument to do that was racing cars, sport had nothing to do with it. Any professional "sport" is the same, it is organised to make the most amount of money possible other wise it need not exist and could revert to a sport in the true sense.
No category was developed to make people money.

The company AVESCO was formed to make people money, and were handed the category.
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Old Yesterday, 00:59 (Ref:3994647)   #312
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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No category was developed to make people money.

The company AVESCO was formed to make people money, and were handed the category.
We differ in view then because if it was not created to make money it was certainly not created to remain as an amateur category, that bird had long left the nest.
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Old Yesterday, 08:39 (Ref:3994694)   #313
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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We differ in view then because if it was not created to make money it was certainly not created to remain as an amateur category, that bird had long left the nest.
It was created as a cheaper set of rules than Group A to save the teams money.

Australian touring car racing had professional drivers twenty years before V8Supercars cane about.
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Old Yesterday, 08:45 (Ref:3994697)   #314
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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It was created as a cheaper set of rules than Group A to save the teams money.



Australian touring car racing had professional drivers twenty years before V8Supercars cane about.
You can't take 2 events 5 years apart and make them into one event....

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Old Today, 01:53 (Ref:3994873)   #315
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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You can't take 2 events 5 years apart and make them into one event....

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I havenít made them one event.

V8 rules were set up for 1993 for certain reasons

AVESCO was set up for 1997 for other reasons
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