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Old 1 Dec 2000, 08:47 (Ref:50615)   #1
Gerard
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Gerard should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Eddie Irvine, interviewed by Autosport's Adam Cooper has said that Jaguar is the only threat to Ferrari and McLaren.

According to Irvine, Jaguar will be a championship challenger in five years.

He went on saying: 'There is no team that's going to compete with McLaren or Ferrari over the next five years, apart from Jaguar. BAR might get up there, or Williams, maybe. But if I had to put money on it, it's us.'
'I'd say Jaguar are the second biggest team in F1 (behind Ferrari). It's a great, great name and it's a great means to attract the right people.'

What do you think? Was Eddie on medicine again or could he be right?

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Old 1 Dec 2000, 09:42 (Ref:50621)   #2
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To quote something I read in the Touring Car forum a while back:

"Ford have a habit of throwing money at something until the win"

I've never yet known Ford enter any race series, from BTCC through World Rally to F1, only to find they were rubbish at it, pack up and go home. I don't see why a Jaguar won't start winning races fairly soon.
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Old 1 Dec 2000, 12:38 (Ref:50639)   #3
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Jaguar has the financial resources, but to be a F1 champion you need more than that.

Aside from the traditional top three(McLaren, Williams and Ferrari) a team with a Japaneses engine supplier(Honda, Toyota) may stand a better chance of taking the title in five years.
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Old 1 Dec 2000, 12:45 (Ref:50640)   #4
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There is a good core, Cosworth is very capable...all in all a promising package with the exception of one factor-the driver.

Jaguar will never win with The Swerve driving.

The recent issue of F1 Racing with its assessment of Jaguar put it very well, Jaguar needs a couple of young, hungry and talented drivers. That isn't Irvine.
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Old 1 Dec 2000, 16:22 (Ref:50664)   #5
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I suggest that Mr. Irvine's doctor prescribes some stronger medication...

Team no. 3 next season will be Williams or Jordan - Jaguar still won't be there. If AMT do a good job for Arrows and Minardi get the Supertecs, then Jaguar won't go anywhere.

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Old 1 Dec 2000, 16:32 (Ref:50670)   #6
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I think Irvne was referring to resources more than speed. He is right when he says that it will take a massive effort to catch Mercedes-Mclaren and Ferrari. As of now, only Jaguar, BMW/Williams and British American Racing Honda can possibly field the monetary resources and they are well behind right now to the top two. BMW/Williams can possibly match the top two's engineering prowess right now, but their driving squad may have to be changed to seriously challenge Hakkinen and Schumacher's dominance. Who knows, maybe Montoya is that push.

Ford definitely has the history of doing whatever it takes to win a championship, but so does Renault. These two may be the next McLaren and Ferrari duo to battle it out.
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Old 2 Dec 2000, 04:04 (Ref:50770)   #7
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Agree with the weakness of Jag being the nut behind the No. 1 Car wheel. From what I have heard, Eddie knows nothing about setting up a car, and that is the one thing a brand new marque needs most of all. They'd be far better off bribing Gil de Ferran to come over from Champ Cars for two or three years and work with them until the cars are shaken down. Then he'll be ready to retire and go into the garage, and they'll be ready to take up a couple of F3 or F3000 pilots (like Chip's two boys?) and away they'd go!

But I daresay it'd be hard to outbid Roger Penske for Gil's services right now.
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Old 2 Dec 2000, 06:24 (Ref:50774)   #8
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Long Range forcasts are fullabull

There used to be this fellow Lennox something or other who used to come up with these long range weather forcasts early in the year on whether it's going to rain for the Melbourne Cup, and the cricket test on boxing day at the MCG. My colleague asked me what this fellow relied on for his forcasts, and I told him he relied on the fact that when the day comes around, no one will remember what he forcast. In 5 years time nobody will remember Eddie Irvine, let alone what he forcast. Contrary to claims here, Jaguar is not a great great name in F1. I don't remember a single car that raced in F1 with a Jaguar engine. Not that is of any consequence since everyone here knows that the team is actually FORD. I think that if they had a decent development program and spent less energy on selling gear and stuff and on entertainment, they might get somewhere. To insinuate they will be the only team that can beat McLaren and Ferrari is just plain stupid talk!!
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Old 2 Dec 2000, 07:56 (Ref:50780)   #9
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I dont think its going to take 5 years, say maybe 3.
To say Jaguar is not a great name in F1 is a bit of an insult, just because you dont remember them.
Jaguar have certainly got more F1 heritage than a lot of the current F1 teams.
Everybody in the UK either openly or secretly wishes Jaguar well,just because they are not doing well at the moment its easy to laugh and criticise.
I am quite sure and the end of next season you wont be so quick to laugh.
Eddie admits Williams or maybe BAR (pah) maybe up there too.
But lets face it nobody actually knows its just opinions.

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Old 3 Dec 2000, 05:08 (Ref:50882)   #10
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Well Jaguar is on the right track. They have the money to win, they keep on bringing in better technicians,they're getting a wind tunnel (which is oh so important nowadays), and they have the right drivers. Yes by that I mean Irvine is a good driver and from what I've heard from people at Jaguar in recent interviews, Irvine is very good at setting up the car because he is very precise in what he feels is wrong with the car and he is always talking with his engineers about ways to improve the car. I don't understand why so many of you people think he's so bad. Just look at what he did with that piece of sh*t car. I know he's not best driver, but he's not as bad as some of you make him out to be.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 09:25 (Ref:50892)   #11
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Jaguar in F1??

Hi Billy, I am sorry, but I really don't think Jaguar were ever in F1. To say they have F1 heritage, they must have competed in F1. Unless you have some information of Jaguar's involvement before WWII.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 16:43 (Ref:50924)   #12
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As far as i am aware Jaguar has never been in F1, they're racing heritage is in sportcars, namely Le Mans. Having said that the marques have an extensive racing background and their entry into F1 was/is just another step in their evolution. And Jaguar is still Jaguar whether they are owned by Ford or not. All that Ford has done with Jaguar is give them a sturdier financial foot to stand on. Jaguar are in it for the long haul and will win it all, of this i am sure. But i do think they need a proper No.1 driver to do it, and Irvine is not that man. As far as i can see there are only three proper No.1 drivers in F1 at the moment, those being M.Schumacher, Hakkinen and Villeneuve. Since these men are all taken that leaves potential No.1's which include at the moment R.Schumacher(his fairing against Montoya this year will be the deciding factor for me), Coulthard a No.2 two at Mclaren but i think his willingness to engage in a good fight could elevate him to No.1 status. And then Button possibly we'll see how year 2 treats him. So who does Jaguar get for the No.1 drive. Coulthard would be the man to take it to Eddie, because even after being Hakkinen's No.2 for the last three years he keeps on coming out swinging and is steadily improving.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 17:53 (Ref:50929)   #13
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The biggest threat to McLaren and Ferrari is the presence of the big engine concerns that have come back into F1. Honda, BMW and Renault will make every effort and they have proven in F1 that they can produce winning engines and find winning teams (although the BMW precedent does go back a long way into the turbo era).

Ford should be in this category also, but they show a tendency to hide behind the Jaguar and Cosworth badges. Mercedes came out from behind the Illmore name and put their reputation on the line. The question regarding Ford is, imo, how much will they put into their effort before they give up and steal quietly away.

With the entry of Honda, BMW, Renault, possibly Ford and Toyota, F1 might be entering a new era. The stakes for these companies are very high. Any teams they associate themselves with will be forced (and helped) to develop cars and organizations worthy of the engines, and of the engine companys' goals.

It's quite possible,imo, that at least one of the teams driven by these forces (and by it's own ambitions of course) will crack the McLaren/Ferrari dominance before the end of this narrow track, grooved tire formula.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 19:11 (Ref:50951)   #14
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Re: Long Range forcasts are fullabull

Quote:
Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Jaguar is not a great great name in F1. I don't remember a single car that raced in F1 with a Jaguar engine.
You're quite right, there never has been a Jaguar-engined
F1 car - in fact there still isn't. The R1 was powered by a Cosworth badged engine. However, as a marque with a tremendous racing history, Jaguar is probably the only constructor that could engender anything like the deep feelings invoked by Ferrari.

Incidentally, when the team was launched, Jaguar stated that it's engine would be badged a Jaguar only in year two. However, I notice it is still a Cosowrth on the FIA entry list for this year. Anyone know if it's going to be a pukka Jaguar or not?
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 20:11 (Ref:50959)   #15
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Jaguar can be a World Champion in 5 years, no doubt, but not with Irvine and not in 2001.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 20:43 (Ref:50971)   #16
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Gee

You guys certainly know your stuff.
It'll teach me to pretend I do
I was getting crossed with Jaguars sporting heritage in general not really F1 I know.
I have no real intrest in the history of motorsport or F1 my real intrest is in the racing of today not yesteryear.
So I'll keep out of it in future

Though people are too quick to write Jaguar off its easy to
criticise a team after a bad season.
I think the chass'is was the main problem of the car so they were behind from day one and were always going to be playing catch up.
They didnt really have the facilitys that some of the top teams had which should change for next season.
P.S. Irvines not that bad there are a lot worse drivers.

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Old 3 Dec 2000, 20:51 (Ref:50973)   #17
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I believe Jaguar will win races and be champions sometime in the future... useless to say it.
What I don't understand what is the point Irvine is trying to get. I have a feeling he's just saying something we already know and trying to be "smart"...
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 21:48 (Ref:50983)   #18
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There is no more reason to predict Jaguar winning a race let alone the championship than to predict BMW or Renault or Honda. While it is true that Cosworth Ford had the winningest engine in F1, times have changed somewhat and now the big boys with megabucks are in the game. Mercedes and Fiat will also be pouring zillions into their development and Toyota are not exactly short of a few yen.
I agree that the name Jaguar is emotive in motor racing, especially when they were able to beat the mighty Mercedes team at Le Mans. Jaguars have always been beautiful road cars, but they have a history of poor reliability, which this F1 team seems to love to perpetuate.
So while guys will say "make no mistake, Jaguar will win", we can replace the word Jaguar with BMW, Renault, Honda, etc. and be just as convincing. However, I am willing to put something on the line here and predict that BMW, Renault and Honda will win races before Jaguar, and will also win the WDC before Jaguar.
Let's hope that Jaguar (Ford) will learn something from Walter Wolf's first year in F1 and will put down their champagne glasses and knuckle down to some hard work.
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Old 3 Dec 2000, 22:44 (Ref:50988)   #19
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Jaguar is emotive for sure, but not because they were able to beat the Mercedes team in 1955. The Fangio/Moss car had a 2 lap lead on Hawthorn/Bueb Jaguar when Mercedes withdrew their cars. I don't think anyone took any pride or repute away from that race.

It was a stirring battle between Hawthorn's D-Type and Fangio's 300 SLR up until the accident, and thereafter no one's heart was in it, especially perhaps Hawthorn's.
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 09:27 (Ref:51031)   #20
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OK Roy, you just roasted my last Jaguar chestnut. I was just trying to be agreeable with the Jaguar fanatics here since Jaguar were supposed to have done so well in sports car racing. I wasn't going to mention Porsche, or MG or Bentley or Aston for fear of upsetting these guys. I mean, what the heck else can I say that is nice about Jaguar? "The guy at the mall where they were raffling a Jaguar last week told us that the car wasn't worth winning because the value just plummeted as soon as you took over ownership!!" Hell!! I have been roasted by admin for not being nice, so I try to placate these guys a little. A couple of years ago, an immaculate Mark X sold for US$4000 in the U.S. at an auction. Let's face it, this team has nothing to do with Jaguar anyway - it is no more Jaguar than it is Volvo. It is the FORD team and they just chose the name Jaguar to try to bump up failing Jaguar sales in England. Hell!! I've really done it this time. I'd better shut up.
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 13:29 (Ref:51055)   #21
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Tee hee hee......
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 21:19 (Ref:51111)   #22
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In 5 years it's possible, anything is possible...although I don't really believe that...
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 21:56 (Ref:51115)   #23
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Good Morning Rise and Shine, and a big WELCOME to our happy and friendly, abusive free and insult free forum. Stay and enjoy yourself awhile. Things will hot up as soon as we get the results of this weeks testing times.
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 22:49 (Ref:51131)   #24
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Everyone remember this thread id, so we can rub Valve Bounces nose in it !
Quote:
I am willing to put something on the line here and predict that BMW, Renault and Honda will win races before Jaguar, and will also win the WDC before Jaguar.
If you had said BMW or Renault will win races before Jaguar,I might have agreed but you are going a bit far with Honda, Jordan maybe but BAR no chance talk about an over rated team and BAR immediatly comes to mind,the only good thing they have got going for them is JV and I think hes getting a bit impatient.
As for them all getting the WDC before Jaguar I thnk you just added that to stir it some more No Chance !

PS why are you talking engine suppliers and not teams Jaguar is a team, as far as I'm aware
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Old 4 Dec 2000, 22:55 (Ref:51135)   #25
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Hello Valve Bounce and thanks for the welcome
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