Big Changes at the House of Eights

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Well in TCR it seems to be, just like GT racing.



This is the same as Larry Perkins and others who were excellent at the engineering side of the business but as the businesses themselves got bigger they needed to bring in more competent management to run the whole business and keep all the stakeholders happy.

It is interesting to me that the Stone Brothers seem to be the type that has an expiry date, if you look at everything they did, they never really kept at anything for any length of time. Some personalities are just like that.

Prior to SBR fielding their own cars, the Stone Bros spent on average two years with a team before moving on to another team. Almost always better teams, but moved along either by choice or not.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If the BUSINESS of 888 did not exist, the cars run by Team18, Tekno, MSR would not exist. Nor would the components in the control supply, and indeed the engine supply thru KRE... simply would not exist.

Somebody has to pay for the motor racing. Its not run by patrons.

However did the series survive prior to Sandown 2003?

Wouldn’t Team18, Tekno and MSR just source their cars and updates from elsewhere?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by one five five

Wouldn’t Team18, Tekno and MSR just source their cars and updates from elsewhere?

They would, indeed they could follow the BJR, Erebus or Grove model and buy some milling machines and some welders, or the old privateer approach of hitting up their local engineering shop to build the bits. "How hard can it be?"

[gravin]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

An interesting view of the ‘other’ 888

Make of it what you will…

Granted this one one side of the story, but wow....can't say this hasn't affected my view of Dane. (Just when I was start to warm a bit towards him after his appearances on E and TD. However, this does align with his recent carry on regarding his supposedly indifference on the shifting issue in SC.)

[Jack65]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If the BUSINESS of 888 did not exist, the cars run by Team18, Tekno, MSR would not exist. Nor would the components in the control supply, and indeed the engine supply thru KRE... simply would not exist.

All three teams have previously raced cars sourced from other teams. Triple Eight have built up a successful customer business selling both cars and components, no-one is denying that, but had it not the void would have been filled by others.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Jack65

All three teams have previously raced cars sourced from other teams. Triple Eight have built up a successful customer business selling both cars and components, no-one is denying that, but had it not the void would have been filled by others.

But then those teams would then become businesses.. and then the anti-commercial discussions here would come true at somewhere other that 888... wonder if the venom against the team concerned would be as heavy...

[Jack65]

All teams are businesses, their owners would all like them to at least be self-funding and not require propping up. Dane is a bit of a confrontational character and thus will rub some up the wrong way, and successful, which attracts the tall poppy syndrome. But in the eyes of level-headed people he is well within his rights to monetise his investment. I would imagine that those who dislike Dane, would probably have felt the same about Roger Penske, Tom Walkinshaw, Fred Gibson etc.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Jack65

All teams are businesses, their owners would all like them to at least be self-funding and not require propping up. Dane is a bit of a confrontational character and thus will rub some up the wrong way, and successful, which attracts the tall poppy syndrome. But in the eyes of level-headed people he is well within his rights to monetise his investment. I would imagine that those who dislike Dane, would probably have felt the same about Roger Penske, Tom Walkinshaw, Fred Gibson etc.

Well Larry Perkins invented the race team funded by selling & maintaining customer cars long before Roland Dane entered the scene. Funnily enough Larry is abrasive, reactionary and abrupt, much like Barry Ryan who he trained, and Harry Firth who trained him!

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[one five five]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Well Larry Perkins invented the race team funded by selling & maintaining customer cars long before Roland Dane entered the scene. Funnily enough Larry is abrasive, reactionary and abrupt, much like Barry Ryan who he trained, and Harry Firth who trained him!

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Larry “invented” it?

Les Small/Roadways were doing customer cars before Larry

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Les Small/Roadways were doing customer cars before Larry

I would argue that Les Small was doing a lot of building and running cars BEFORE he actually ran a car himself.

Larry directly build cars and components to offset the cost of racing and allow him to commercially service sponsors he would not have been able to if he hadn't had the engineering business, while maintaining a higher standard of engineering and equipment than the straight commercial budget allowed.

Was covered really nicely in his podcast appearances, which are essential listening, I would say!

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I wonder how hard Mr Dane laughs at all the people who think he is the anti-Christ...

He built a business, a very successful one.
And according to Mr Quinn a commercially successful one as well.

And spent 18 years and some building it. And sold slices of it off to invest in making it bigger (like the 2nd facility up the road, and all the shiny new machine tools apparently going into it)

Tall poppy syndrome abounds.

I'm not against RD, just think he is a workaholic who won't be able to completely walk away from the place.

[Kingair]

No different to blokes in the speedway world, like Carl Jeffrey’s that had JC Race Cars,, Max De Jersey Engineering and Brian Callaghan that supplied and built rail car/space frame chassis for speedway in the late 70’s and early 80’s. All done to help fund their speedway racing over time.

Jack Brabham and Ron Tauranac’s business in the UK, building race cars for the cashed up weekend racer.

RD is just the next evolution, with business smarts and happy to part people from their cash to live the dream!

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

He won't be able to let go because he brings nothing to the table in a motor racing sense.

He's not a former great driver. He's not even an amateur who could move on and have fun in Porsches or TCM.

He's not an engineer who could do part-time freelance work.

He's not a mechanic/builder.

Useless to motor racing.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

He won't be able to let go because he brings nothing to the table in a motor racing sense.

He's not a former great driver. He's not even an amateur who could move on and have fun in Porsches or TCM.

He's not an engineer who could do part-time freelance work.

He's not a mechanic/builder.

Useless to motor racing.

But he built a great empire and dynasty

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Cringeworthy.

Dane is a blob, and a product of UK motorsport. A bigger, hardened, mature motorsport community. He's otherwise a nobody, and a nobody even in the original formation of 888 (Derek Warwick and Ian Harrison being the two most substantial people). His team won BTCC a number of times in a fortunate situation.

He's a lightweight in UK/European motorsport. But has come over here and taken advantage of a smaller, less knowledgable motor racing community, and built a "great empire and dynasty".

The cringeworthy part is that you've got guys like Sandgroper holding him in high esteem, when Dane's team is a contributor, then ultimately the beneficiary, of the demise of the team in his avatar!

Lame.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Cringeworthy.

Dane is a blob, and a product of UK motorsport. A bigger, hardened, mature motorsport community. He's otherwise a nobody, and a nobody even in the original formation of 888 (Derek Warwick and Ian Harrison being the two most substantial people). His team won BTCC a number of times in a fortunate situation.

He's a lightweight in UK/European motorsport. But has come over here and taken advantage of a smaller, less knowledgable motor racing community, and built a "great empire and dynasty".

The cringeworthy part is that you've got guys like Sandgroper holding him in high esteem, when Dane's team is a contributor, then ultimately the beneficiary, of the demise of the team in his avatar!

Lame.

hows them sour grapes, you have your opinion as we all have ours
thanks anyway, Care factor nill and stop trolling dude

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

It's no surprise you don't care. That's the ignorance Supercars relies on.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

He won't be able to let go because he brings nothing to the table in a motor racing sense.

Wow we should frame that. This is the guy that redefined professionalism and set the bar for team presentation and engineering of customer cars. Period.

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

He's not even an amateur who could move on and have fun in Porsches or TCM.

Really? You know he got his start in racing by racing, right?

And if you knew anything about the topic you would have watched him hustle the Group A XJS and his bloody awesome Camaro around in the Supersprinters!

I wouldn't mind betting Jamie will run the race team but Roland will still very much be involved in the engineering side of the business.

[Racing Harz]

Don´t feed the troll.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Racing Harz

Don´t feed the troll.

Sound advice

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[Umai Naa]

It's Pecky reincarnated.

[sizzle]

[QUOTE=Umai Naa;4094951]It's Pecky reincarnated.[/QUOTE

Pecky made more sense sometimes.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

There are 3 facets to car racing. Driving, engineering, building (mechanic).

Which of these disciplines could Dane generate a name for himself if he wasn't an owner?

Edit: I've just noticed Mixer's post. "the guy that redefined professionalism and set the bar for team presentation and engineering of customer cars".

Professionalism is relative, and he wasn't needed for customer cars. But these factors increase $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for his benefit.

These are superficial factors in racing. So what does he bring to the table in a motor racing sense?

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

There are 3 facets to car racing. Driving, engineering, building (mechanic).

Which of these disciplines could Dane generate a name for himself if he wasn't an owner?

Edit: I've just noticed Mixer's post. "the guy that redefined professionalism and set the bar for team presentation and engineering of customer cars".

Professionalism is relative, and he wasn't needed for customer cars. But these factors increase $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for his benefit.

These are superficial factors in racing. So what does he bring to the table in a motor racing sense?

It's got to be medication, powders, or potions, but something has changed and made you even more one-eyed and nonsensical. Is everything ok?

[Kingair]

Looks like somebody needs a hug, or a blowup doll from one of those adult shops!