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Old 5 May 2020, 09:30 (Ref:3974569)   #31
Matt K
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I agree with FrŲhlich, Audi's exit seems unsportsmanlike and I'd rather buy a BMW than Audi now
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Old 5 May 2020, 09:34 (Ref:3974570)   #32
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I can understand BMW being upset, they want the series to continue, yet Audi have quit just like that. It really has left the series in limbo
Are BMW genuinely upset - or is it just part of the parlance associated with a sporting rivalry?
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Old 5 May 2020, 10:58 (Ref:3974588)   #33
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I donít think we need to read too much into it
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Old 5 May 2020, 11:03 (Ref:3974591)   #34
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I donít think we need to read too much into it
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Old 5 May 2020, 14:45 (Ref:3974616)   #35
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antnee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ways to reduce costs are to standardise bits and stop development races. Therefore keep all the bits Joe Public doesn't care about (structure, suspension, drivetrain) as control items and only let the bits which could keep manufacturers interested.

A ruleset similar to NGTC could work well, but with a plan going forward about how it shifts to full electric/fuel cell. Pick a body type (maybe promote SUVs?) specify engine size (Production based 3.0-4.0L to keep the noise there) then allow hybrid gubbins to be developed over 5 years, at which point it switches to full electric. That way the series can be sold to OEM's boards by saying it is in line with the product ranges and will allow development of the key items we are promoting (batteries, electric motors, charging solutions and control systems).
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Old 5 May 2020, 15:23 (Ref:3974621)   #36
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I agree, the cars can remain sophisticated without all the extra expense of developing the cars. To be fair they have gone in the right direction by reducing aero, that got to a ridiculous level at the beginning of the last decade. Maybe now they could standardise a few bits too to keep costs under control
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Old 5 May 2020, 15:30 (Ref:3974625)   #37
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DTM has always had a problem with it being a mostly manufacturer backed series, just look back at the DTM/ITC.

Manufacturers are only concerned with what their board of directors want, boards change and so do priorities/direction.

BTCC had the same issue at the end of the 90's, so many manufacturers left the championship and it struggled on for years before being reinvented with NGTC.

I expect the DTM won't take place in 2021, what would BMW have to gain from spending millions to race against itself. If a privateer beats a works BMW that will that say to the board of directors.

I am also in no doubt the series will be relaunched in a few years when the economy has recovered.
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Old 5 May 2020, 15:31 (Ref:3974627)   #38
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Maybe now they could standardise a few bits too to keep costs under control
DTM cars already are 80% standardized... the problem is that the poured silly money into those parts that aren't.

The DTM dilemma really is a Venn-diagram without any overlap between the circles:

In one circle we have what the manufacturers want (electric racing) and in the other is what what the majority of DTM-fans want (loud widebody cars fielded by manufacturer teams). I really can't see how both, the fans' and the manufacturers' demands, could be fulfilled.
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Old 6 May 2020, 02:12 (Ref:3974706)   #39
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https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...3-gte/4788601/

Interesting take on what DTM could do for the near future.

If I was Berger, then I would take a break and come back in at least 3 years time. I would save my resources during this difficult economic situation, and prepare a new set of regulations that include full electrification and budget caps. I would also make sure Audi would have to pay through its nose to re-join.
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Old 6 May 2020, 06:22 (Ref:3974717)   #40
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Would you say the same for Daimler/Mercedes-Benz, who left for basically the same reasons Audi did? Not to mention that paying out the nose is IMO a big part of the reason why only German makes had anything to do with DTM aside from the single season Aston Martin project.

That's what happens when you pander to OEM factory teams (look at how LMP1 imploded, and before that, LMGTP and LMP900 about 20 years ago, though that was because BMW (ironically) and Toyota wanted to use LM as a springboard to get into F1), and you basically had Audi, BMW and Mercedes there mostly because of German nationalistic motorsport pride. Which is why Audi didn't dump DTM when they dumped the WEC instead.

Not to mention IMO that BMW has room to talk, given how they left M-Tek high and dry with how they handed their WEC pull out and how the IMSA program probably wouldn't exist without BMW North America.

And at least Audi Sport are offering to support privateer teams next year to keep DTM afloat until new rules take effect, unlike what BMW did in WEC GTE. IMO, I do sadly think it's time to put the current iteration of DTM down. Honestly, I don't think that DTM understood what it wanted to be. German/European NASCAR? German/European JGTC/Super GT? GT/touring cars on steroids? Marketing and a saturated market in Europe of customer driven GT and touring car racing (where companies like Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes-Benz/Mercedes-AMG have made a significant sum of money) have a lot to answer for.

Last edited by chernaudi; 6 May 2020 at 06:28.
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Old 6 May 2020, 15:00 (Ref:3974770)   #41
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https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...3-gte/4788601/

Interesting take on what DTM could do for the near future.

If I was Berger, then I would take a break and come back in at least 3 years time. I would save my resources during this difficult economic situation, and prepare a new set of regulations that include full electrification and budget caps.
Full electrification would fly with the manufacturers, but not with the majority of the fans. But what good is a series without fans for the manufacturers?
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Old 6 May 2020, 17:12 (Ref:3974777)   #42
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As a fan, I don't want to see full electrification. Certainly not in the short term. Auto racing is facing a culture clash/identity crisis enough right now. Not to mention that no mainstream auto maker (aside from Tesla, which has Elon Musk's billions and more money in Gov't subsidies/tax breaks behind it) even sells a fully electric car yet, certainly not in North America.

Audi probably sold more diesels in NA than they ever sold hybrids, even though they've been pushing hybrids more since dieselgate.

And the thing with today's culture, you don't really need motor racing anymore to sell cars. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday is basically dead. Audi may've started to get to where they are now with sales and such with touring cars and LM, but by 2008, they didn't really need racing to market their stuff anymore. Same goes for basically everyone else. Just do stuff with product placement that makes your stuff look cool.

Which IMO sucks, but us auto racing fans are a minority among the car buying public.
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Old 6 May 2020, 23:00 (Ref:3974822)   #43
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I agree, electric power should remain in FE and itís support series. No reason for DTM too
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Old 6 May 2020, 23:15 (Ref:3974825)   #44
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I agree, electric power should remain in FE and itís support series. No reason for DTM too
Unless it's the only way for the series to survive?

Is it ICE or nothing?
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Old 7 May 2020, 08:59 (Ref:3974863)   #45
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I really doubt it's the only way DTM can survive. After all if they do it and it doesn't have the desired effect, then it's a complete waste.
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