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Old 25 Sep 2020, 11:40 (Ref:4006189)   #16
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I think Bottas has shown how good Rosberg was. Yes he required a bit of luck to win the title, but luck is no good if you canít make the most of the opportunity presented to you. He really was prepared to go that bit extra to win the title too. As well as that, even if Hamilton was winning, Rosberg was always there or thereabouts 9 times out of 10.
completely agree with this. Im not ashamed to say it, i didnt like Rosberg much when he was at Mercedes....some of his antics were interesting, however since hes gone i have missed how much he pushed Lewis, it brought the best out in both drivers.

Sometimes these days i think hamilton is doing 'just enough' to win, so he doesnt burnout....i always feel like there is another gear in there if he was challenged properly....sometimes you see that gear for instance in the second half of Monza or Spain, Austria qualifying..
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 11:46 (Ref:4006191)   #17
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HAHAHAHAHA pull the other one!

2 things, he went to mclaren as a number 2 driver, was given team orders to remain behing alonso in the first part of the season (rightfully), the team only gave equal treatment around canada.
Nick Fry was interviewed on Australian radio last year. He was saying that they were interested to have Hamilton join the team. That contributed to Dennis picking Hamilton for the 07 season when he perhaps was reluctant to.

I have no doubt that because Hamilton was an unknown quantity, there may've been some reliance/leaning towards Alonso.

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the team clearly favoured hamilton? Proof please....because of course it makes perfect sense to pay millions of dollars to bring in a multiple world champion and then throw your resources behind a completely unproven rookie!!!! LOL!!!!
It does seem silly on the surface, but there's more to it. When it was announced Alonso was going to Mclaren (Dec 05), Hamilton wasn't even in the picture. I presume the intention for Mclaren was to win with him. But that changed when Hamilton showed he was of more substance than a typical drive in his first year. Mclaren might've paid Alonso millions, but it meant nothing when there was greater commercial value in Hamilton.

I'm someone who thinks Alonso is better overall (That topic does get blurred). But considering how good Hamilton was straightaway and was an Mclaren/MB product. For however good Alonso is, he wasn't worth Mclaren hiring him (Or Schumacher or anyone else).

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The fact a complete rookie could get close enough to Alonso to rattle him speaks volumes about hamiltons ability.
Absolutely.

He's a "rookie". But from my observations, first year drivers from the 2000s seem different than before.

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beat him on a technicality? no.....beat him
I'm going to say ""yes".

Same wins and points total, but Hamilton gets awarded 2nd due to more 2nd places. Not just that, but even from Canada where you said that's when they were getting equal treatment, it was 71pts each for the rest of the season (38pts after Monaco).

10-7 h2h for Alonso in races. 10-7 or 9-6 for Hamilton in qualifying. But Alonso "lost" the "meeting expectations championship". It's like watching a football final where the team that has the better of play, but still has to end up winning on penalties.

I think it was to Hamilton's advantage that it was at Mclaren, and that it was Alonso having to adjust to a new team. Had Alonso stayed at Renault and Hamilton joined him there, then I personally think Alonso would've clearly beaten him. But on a scale of Alonso - Fisichella, Hamilton would've been closer to Alonso than Fisichella.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 11:55 (Ref:4006193)   #18
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Just for the Rosberg taking advantage of Hamilton's "unreliability". Most of you should've remember that Rosberg got punted off in Malaysia after that Vettel/Verstappen skirmish. Rosberg had to make his way up the field. If it wasn't for the "luck" Hamilton had that day, Rosberg would otherwise have won.

Because Rosberg is like the Chelsea/Mourinho of racing drivers, he allowed that season to be closer that it was.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 11:56 (Ref:4006194)   #19
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Recently Eddie Jordan has made some public statements.
Slow news day in F1. Just ring up Eddie for a quote or two or ten.

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Old 25 Sep 2020, 12:01 (Ref:4006198)   #20
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As pointed out above. Eddie Jordan.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 12:15 (Ref:4006201)   #21
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Slow news day in F1. Just ring up Eddie for a quote or two or ten.

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You make it sound like heís a maintenance worker lol!
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 12:32 (Ref:4006206)   #22
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You make it sound like heís a maintenance worker lol!
hes certainly high maintenance il give you that!
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 17:40 (Ref:4006244)   #23
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Just for the Rosberg taking advantage of Hamilton's "unreliability". Most of you should've remember that Rosberg got punted off in Malaysia after that Vettel/Verstappen skirmish. Rosberg had to make his way up the field. If it wasn't for the "luck" Hamilton had that day, Rosberg would otherwise have won.

Because Rosberg is like the Chelsea/Mourinho of racing drivers, he allowed that season to be closer that it was.

There were plenty of times that season, such as Spa, where Lewis too had to start at the back due to unreliability reasons yet dragged himself back to a finish he shouldn't have had due to his performace.

On balance, Lewis had the worse reliability that season, culminating in Malaysia where the title ended up put out of Lewis' reach by the engine failure.

But even as a Lewis fan, there's no point to decrying Nico's achievements
If you try to pain Nico as an average driver, then why didn't Lewis muller him like he is Bottas atm?

No, Nico was an underrated talent, with the only real black mark with his ruthlessness (putting his engine into an mode the drivers and team agreed they wouldn't do in the race for reliability reasons to challenge lewis was the start of a snowball effect that culminated in Nico's retirement it seems. But Monaco Qualifying was perhaps his worst moment, when he wasn't clumsily clunking into Lewis due to his misunderstanding of wheel to wheel racing anyway)
Nico sacrificed everything to be world champion. His friendship with Lewis was the first thing he found easy to cast aside, it seems

Ever since he left the sport, he's seemed like he's tried to rekindle that friendship, but it seems that's a door that will remain closed, at least while Lewis is still racing

As good as a driver he was though, I could do without him trying to become the face of the sport with some weak-level punditry, Boring Vlogs, sponsorship campaigns and an objectionably terrible podcast recorded on his Iphone so the sound is terrible.

Good driver, but was his career just his method of raising his profile for his other business concerns? The more he keeps showing up, the more that seems to be the case.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 18:09 (Ref:4006247)   #24
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Here's a bunch of things which are all true:

Rosberg is a really nice guy willing to walk away from the sport for the sake of his family
Rosberg is a ruthless ******* willing to sacrifice friendships and push the limits of the rules in order to win
Rosberg deserved to be a World Champion
Rosberg worked hard to be World Champion
Rosberg would not have been World Champion in 2016 were it not for an unusual run of mechanical problems for Hamilton
Hamilton became a better driver as a result of losing in 2016 and has Rosberg to thank for that

Edit: Oh and Eddie Jordan is a slightly sad attention-seeker

Last edited by Anyopenroad; 25 Sep 2020 at 18:22.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 18:24 (Ref:4006248)   #25
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Originally Posted by Anyopenroad View Post
Here's a bunch of things which are all true:

Rosberg is a really nice guy willing to walk away from the sport for the sake of his family
Rosberg is a ruthless ******* willing to sacrifice friendships and push the limits of the rules in order to win
Rosberg deserved to be a World Champion
Rosberg worked hard to be World Champion
Rosberg would not have been World Champion in 2016 were it not for an unusual run of mechanical problems for Hamilton
Hamilton became a better driver as a result of losing in 2016 and has Rosberg to thank for that

Edit: Oh and Eddie Jordan is a slightly sad attention-seeker
This^^^^^ 100% then 100% more

Anyway, back to max, red bull, Lewis., Eddie.....ummm basically it’s b0llocks
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 19:07 (Ref:4006251)   #26
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Anyopenroad and ascarracinguk pretty much nail this thread.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 19:13 (Ref:4006252)   #27
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Anyopenroad and ascarracinguk pretty much nail this thread.
I agree too, except for the lost friendship bit.
I think both deserve equal credit for that.
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Old 25 Sep 2020, 20:41 (Ref:4006268)   #28
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Hamilton is better than Rosberg, but Rosberg was pretty damn close. In an age of ultra consistency this means over a long year it is unlikely Rosberg would beat Hamilton. However, in one year, it fell towards Rosberg. Well done sir.

In the years one of them won the championship it was 2-1 to Hamilton. I’m happy that is fair considering how close they were.

As for the team favoring Hamilton. All of the stuff above is more likely to come about when a driver is just stronger! Which Hamilton is against most!

Occam’s razor.
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Old 26 Sep 2020, 02:34 (Ref:4006305)   #29
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There were plenty of times that season, such as Spa, where Lewis too had to start at the back due to unreliability reasons yet dragged himself back to a finish he shouldn't have had due to his performace.
This is the problem in reference to Rosberg. Hamilton started at the back because he and MB tanked the regs regarding replacement parts. This was to have fresh/er equipment for the rest of the season.

Spa beforehand was seen as less detrimental to take advantage of those rules (A loophole subsequently closed).

That I suspect is so galling for Hamilton fans and ironic for neutrals. A blown engine with a clear lead. It wasn't a worn engine that blew up, but was a fresh engine that wasn't being pushed.

I can give you stats that demonstrate Rosberg was better than Hamilton that year, Hamilton didn't perform to his 2014 & 15 seasons, and Rosberg lifted. Objective stats that have nothing to do with reliability. Are you interested?

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On balance, Lewis had the worse reliability that season, culminating in Malaysia where the title ended up put out of Lewis' reach by the engine failure.
This is incorrect.

Rosberg led by 23pts after Malaysia (288-265) with 5 races to go. When Rosberg won the following race in Japan, that extended the lead to 33 (313-280). That's when the balance of power swung to Rosberg. Four 2nd places for the rest of the year meant he won the championship, and he drove accordingly (To my disbelief)

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But even as a Lewis fan, there's no point to decrying Nico's achievements
With respect, there's nothing in you post that says don't decry his achievement.


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If you try to pain Nico as an average driver, then why didn't Lewis muller him like he is Bottas atm?
2 reasons (IMO)

1) Rosberg is of sufficient talent that even if you're inherently better than him, you can't be complacent in your own performance.

2) There's something that Rosberg has but Bottas doesn't, and it's more important than inherent talent. That is "clout" within the team.

Rosberg had clout due to being at MB from the start. Bottas has none. Clout is a bigger deal because it set up how the team operates.

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Originally Posted by codename_47 View Post
No, Nico was an underrated talent, with the only real black mark with his ruthlessness (putting his engine into an mode the drivers and team agreed they wouldn't do in the race for reliability reasons to challenge lewis was the start of a snowball effect that culminated in Nico's retirement it seems. But Monaco Qualifying was perhaps his worst moment, when he wasn't clumsily clunking into Lewis due to his misunderstanding of wheel to wheel racing anyway)
Nico sacrificed everything to be world champion. His friendship with Lewis was the first thing he found easy to cast aside, it seems

Ever since he left the sport, he's seemed like he's tried to rekindle that friendship, but it seems that's a door that will remain closed, at least while Lewis is still racing

As good as a driver he was though, I could do without him trying to become the face of the sport with some weak-level punditry, Boring Vlogs, sponsorship campaigns and an objectionably terrible podcast recorded on his Iphone so the sound is terrible.

Good driver, but was his career just his method of raising his profile for his other business concerns? The more he keeps showing up, the more that seems to be the case.
There's a narrative in this that doesn't come across well. BUt not worht carrying on with.
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Old 26 Sep 2020, 07:38 (Ref:4006322)   #30
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A key in how hard Rosberg pushed Hamilton is seen by how many times Nico finished second when Lewis won.

2014: 11/8
2015: 10/7
2016: 10/5
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