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Old 14 Oct 2020, 15:30 (Ref:4010627)   #31
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When it comes to this no.1 and no.2 status thing people deal in absolutes, whereas there are really degrees.

For Hamilton his team mates have been allowed to beat him and, while not always, best drivers available who may challenge him were signed. I don’t think that was quite the same with Schumacher.

Before anyone gets giddy I’m not saying they detract from either. Although I have preferred the McLaren and Mercedes approach to the Ferrari one.
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 15:56 (Ref:4010637)   #32
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Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
2010-2012 against button there was no number 1/ number 2
Button is the only one of his team mates to beat Hamilton so soundly as he did in 2011.... ie 40+ points , more podiums (same win tally).
Rosberg of course beat him but scored fewer wins, fewer podiums and only 5 more points
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 16:16 (Ref:4010642)   #33
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To be fair Hamiltonís head was all over the pace that season. Add to the fact Button had a car well suited to his driving style meant he was often Vettelís closest challenger, hence second in the points
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 16:27 (Ref:4010648)   #34
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It's clearly either Hamilton or Clark....
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 16:30 (Ref:4010649)   #35
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Lots of different opinions of course.

Whilst no great supporter of either it is fair to say Lewis's driving is an example to others in the sport,* whilst Michael was sometimes the opposite.

* I am generalising and no doubt a key board warrior will claim turn 3, lap 34, race 9 of the 2009 season Lewis did......................
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 16:31 (Ref:4010651)   #36
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Nico was supposed to play 2nd fiddle but decided not to, hence the fireworks.
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Are you sure? I don't recall ever hearing that before....
iirc, when Schumi signed up, Nico had a clause guaranteeing him equal money to whoever the the other driver was...the logic being if a team paid both drivers the same then they would treat both equally. this clause then extended over to when Merc signed Ham.

in the end, it's for sure debatable how much that affected the dynamic but a smart clause nontheless.

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Button is the only one of his team mates to beat Hamilton so soundly as he did in 2011.... ie 40+ points , more podiums (same win tally).
Rosberg of course beat him but scored fewer wins, fewer podiums and only 5 more points
those team mates of course being the knocks on LH being considered the GOAT.

more Button for me because of the types of wins Button managed against Lewis particularly those Mclaren wins he got in variable weather conditions.

being a master in the rain has to be a GOAT factor and Senna or Schumi were considered peerless in this. of course so is LH except when he was paired with Button.
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 17:30 (Ref:4010660)   #37
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No one can be The "Greatest of all time" as no one knows what will happen tomorrow or next year, so by that measure he could be Greatest To Date (GTD), but that makes him sound like a rather poor version of the golf GTI. To be honest everyone will have different idea's and different ways of measuring this so it is pointless other than to give people something to argue about. But in my opinion he is not even in my top 5 anyway.
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 18:49 (Ref:4010684)   #38
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It's clearly either Hamilton or Clark....
Thatís brilliant.

I do know I am guilty of using a forename of one driver and a surname of another in the same post. I blame Kimi
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 18:50 (Ref:4010685)   #39
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iirc, when Schumi signed up, Nico had a clause guaranteeing him equal money to whoever the the other driver was...the logic being if a team paid both drivers the same then they would treat both equally. this clause then extended over to when Merc signed Ham.
I have never heard this before.

It makes me think of his Dad Keke - thatís the sort of thing he might do
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 19:02 (Ref:4010686)   #40
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Button is the only one of his team mates to beat Hamilton so soundly as he did in 2011.... ie 40+ points , more podiums (same win tally).
Rosberg of course beat him but scored fewer wins, fewer podiums and only 5 more points
I wouldnít call it ďsoundlyď, but he did beat him. And Button did score more points over their time together. I always thought that this reflected very well on Button.
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Old 14 Oct 2020, 19:37 (Ref:4010699)   #41
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I have never heard this before.

It makes me think of his Dad Keke - thatís the sort of thing he might do
right!

but cant recall where i read that and struggling to find anything mentioning it now to be honest.

did find this for what its worth though. admittedly though this could mean any number of things.

Yes, that's good. And it's in my contract that I always have the same opportunities as my teammate, no matter who it is," Rosberg answered.

https://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...n?artid=148185
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Old 15 Oct 2020, 22:40 (Ref:4010888)   #42
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right!

but cant recall where i read that and struggling to find anything mentioning it now to be honest.

did find this for what its worth though. admittedly though this could mean any number of things.

Yes, that's good. And it's in my contract that I always have the same opportunities as my teammate, no matter who it is," Rosberg answered.

https://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...n?artid=148185
Rosberg being very self effacing there.
I suspect his tongue was firmly in his cheek.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 10:43 (Ref:4010966)   #43
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I wouldn’t call it “soundly“, but he did beat him. And Button did score more points over their time together. I always thought that this reflected very well on Button.
I thought in 2011 of all seasons, Hamilton was soundly beaten on most Sundays by Button, who really showed his class. However, even then Hamilton was still regularly the only major challenger to Red Bull's dominance in qualifying, taking the only non-RBR pole position at Yeongam which reminded everyone his talent hadn't gone away simply due to many clumsy moments over the season, primarily involving Felipe Massa. But then again, only one McLaren driver that season was pulling off drives such as that Canada race and a win in Japan that was one of the most complete performances I've seen on race day. I know most wouldn't put Jenson in the same tier as Lewis and Fernando but he could outperform both regularly and cannot be regarded as notably weaker imo.

But to come back to the main point, I'm one of those boring relativists who doesn't like to pick a GOAT (aside from in men's tennis), but to discount Hamilton from the discussion given the way he has led Mercedes since Rosberg left would be a massive oversight imo. 2018 in particular was one of the most impressive title wins I can recall given the frequent advantage Ferrari had.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 10:45 (Ref:4010967)   #44
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Not sure Lewis has number 1 status written into his contract, but there's a reason Bottas is in that seat and not Max Verstappen.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 12:08 (Ref:4010978)   #45
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Not sure Lewis has number 1 status written into his contract, but there's a reason Bottas is in that seat and not Max Verstappen.
Absolutely. Just the same reason Hamilton isnít in the second seat at Red Bull, Vettel isnít against Max etc.

No team needs, nor wants 2 utterly selfish, completely driven, alpha males competing against each other tearing the team apart.

Weíve seen it before with Prost/ Senna, Hamilton/ alonso....it doesnít work

Again, thereís a big difference between having number 1 status by contract and number 1 status by talent. One gives the teammate a chance to shine, the other doesnt
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