Dome LMP Discussion

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by The Badger

How do you mean "says what ? I dont get your question Dave ?

Just pointing out that the Dome now has the latest aero mods on it ..... why , when it is supposed to be a finished program ?

Did you even look at the pics ?

What it says in pics , is that there is a Dome modified to the latest aero mods , thats what the pics says .

God !!!

Sorry, I was referring to the many hundreds of Japanese characters surrounding the photos. I assumed there was more to the story in those characters and you had some way of reading them. I have never messed with different languages via windows except some BabelFish fumblings.
Yes I saw the photos. No I wasn't clear enough in my response.
My 'guess' would be they had the Yen to design the updates. But was that just a scale Aero Model or the actual car? CAD is probably expensive but not nearly as much as full sized wind tunnel parts fabrication.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

LOL and that says WHAT?

http://translate.google.com/translat...2Fmdt_003.html

It says that they developed it, but now it's cancelled and won't race.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

http://translate.google.com/translat...2Fmdt_003.html

It says that they developed it, but now it's cancelled and won't race.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say that the S102 was cancelled so they could use the technology learned on a car called something else for a manufacturer partner!

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by joeb

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say that the S102 was cancelled so they could use the technology learned on a car called something else for a manufacturer partner!

Good plan, but if I'm President of DAVE MOTORS and I'm funding the project, then it wouldn't take much more than a new decal to change the Dome to a DAVE. (mkIII) They wouldn't need to build an entirely new machine based upon the lessons of the current car. They HAVE the car. They just don't HAVE the funding.

dh

ps, I'm getting ready to move to Texas so I won't be able to reply for a couple of weeks. I won't be online til early October...if all goes well.
ddhh

[The Badger]

Good luck with the move Dave ..... I dont envy you , a real pain . Hopefully everything will be great once you get down to Mr.Dubya territory .

[Japanese Samurai]

Remodeling S102 was completed.
http://twitpic.com/2t9prx

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Remodeling S102 was completed.
http://twitpic.com/2t9prx

To 2010 regulation .
Unfortunately no fin.

[Japanese Samurai]

Sorry for off topic.
This is a sketch of an electric vehicle by Dome that Mionoru Hayashi designed. (not by Adrian Newey )
http://twitpic.com/2yx911

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Sorry for off topic.
This is a sketch of an electric vehicle by Dome that Mionoru Hayashi designed. (not by Adrian Newey )
http://twitpic.com/2yx911

There are similarities to the S102

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by CTD

There are similarities to the S102

I was thinking it resembled one of the possible designs that indycar considered recently. Specifically the 3rd design listed on this site.

dh

[Japanese Samurai]

For Rent!(engine is excluded)
http://twitpic.com/316ba7

[The Badger]

If rent includes support , it might well be a good deal , for the short term . Would that be eligable for the AsLMS next year ?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Badger

If rent includes support , it might well be a good deal , for the short term . Would that be eligable for the AsLMS next year ?

It should be.
And if it receives a 2011 spec LMP1 engine, it will not need the fin!

[ger80]

So lets get some money together then ...
"10/10 Dome S102" sounds good, doesnt it?

[Japanese Samurai]

Motor Fan Illustrated magazine featured Dome S102 of the 2010 version(not 2011 ver).
The car was named S102i(Improvement).
A detailed update is performed besides a feature rear section.
As for the suspension, the hydraulic bump stopper(third element) is used at the front and the Dome's oridinal damper is used at rear.
In addition, upright made of titanium was adopted (Only Qualifying is used in S102).

The simulation time of S102i is 3:23.593(Sarthe circuit).

(Aerodynamics data by Dome)
---------drag(N)---DF(N)--DF/Fr---DF/Re---L/D---CoP
S101.5----2580----8770----3541---5229---3.4----40
S102------2358---10060----4575---5485---4.5----48
S102i------2462---10110----4600---5610---4.4----48

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

The simulation time of S102i is 3:23.593(Sarthe circuit).

(Aerodynamics data by Dome)
---------drag(N)---DF(N)--DF/Fr---DF/Re---L/D---CoP
S101.5----2580----8770----3541---5229---3.4----40
S102------2358---10060----4575---5485---4.5----48
S102i------2462---10110----4600---5610---4.4----48

Did the article mention at what speed those numbers were achieved?


dh

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

Did the article mention at what speed those numbers were achieved?

220km/h

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

220km/h

Thanks, that is always an important data point to include. DF at 220kph is not the same as when measured at 325kph.

What struck me about the numbers was the large jump in downforce from the old S101.5 to the S102....but then...two years of probably intermittent aero doodling provides only ½ of 1% increase in df with the S102i.

The cost in time and facility(wind tunnel, CAD etc) use must have been tremendous for such a small step forward. And then for the ACO to continuously make rules changes that both thwart the development and force other items to be included(read that as an UGLY fin) and you have to admire Dome's hobby.

Other private Manufacturers like Lola and Zytek and OAK obviously face the same financial roadblocks to development. I wonder what the downforce improvements from the original Lola B05/40 to the current coupe were? Did we see half a percent gains with the open footbox and later the coupe?

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by CTD

It should be.
And if it receives a 2011 spec LMP1 engine, it will not need the fin!

__________________
Im a bit of a dreamer, so dont take everything i write too seriously .
- Just added a picture of me "beating" Jan Magnussen in Playstation when i was younger, go check my profile

When I saw that sig, I wondered why you wanted to ruin a perfectly good Playstation by whacking a Danish Racer on the head with it.

dh

[templer]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

Thanks, that is always an important data point to include. DF at 220kph is not the same as when measured at 325kph.

What struck me about the numbers was the large jump in downforce from the old S101.5 to the S102....but then...two years of probably intermittent aero doodling provides only ½ of 1% increase in df with the S102i.

The cost in time and facility(wind tunnel, CAD etc) use must have been tremendous for such a small step forward. And then for the ACO to continuously make rules changes that both thwart the development and force other items to be included(read that as an UGLY fin) and you have to admire Dome's hobby.

Other private Manufacturers like Lola and Zytek and OAK obviously face the same financial roadblocks to development. I wonder what the downforce improvements from the original Lola B05/40 to the current coupe were? Did we see half a percent gains with the open footbox and later the coupe?

The step in the aerodynamic performance with an improvement of 1 - 1,5 % comparing S102 to S102i is quite very well. The smaller 1,60m rear reduced downforce by about 6-10 % so the overall improvement was 7-11 % and so quite impressive.

What is not clear is the unit for the aero figures. Kilograms could not be , Newton meters not and pounds also not. More than 10.000 pounds at 320 kph was the peak of the lastest ground effect Group C cars like the TS010 with an peak L/D of 6,2:1. So this figure at 220 kph is impossible.

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by templer

The step in the aerodynamic performance with an improvement of 1 - 1,5 % comparing S102 to S102i is quite very well. The smaller 1,60m rear reduced downforce by about 6-10 % so the overall improvement was 7-11 % and so quite impressive.

What is not clear is the unit for the aero figures. Kilograms could not be , Newton meters not and pounds also not. More than 10.000 pounds at 320 kph was the peak of the latest ground effect Group C cars like the TS010 with an peak L/D of 6,2:1. So this figure at 220 kph is impossible.

I figured Newtons, which come out to be 2250 pounds/force DF @ 220kph(137mph). Considering the average for a current Prototype at 150mph is reported to be around 2500 lbs, this would be in the ballpark. Being strapped down in a wind tunnel with a constant ride height might cause the numbers to be slightly optimistic. Converting back and forth between Metric and 'Merican number systems always screws my head up.

A quick division of Downforce in Newtons by drag in Newtons gives us
10110 ÷ 2462 = 4.11 (S102i) That is somewhat different from their result, but not totally out of the range.

oh, and great point about the Aero restrictions. I commented about them but totally forgot to include them in my analysis. That's why I'm a mail man and not an engineer. lol!

dh

ps.. it may state in the article, but we don't know if this is the max df the car can produce with full attack wing settings and front winglets, or is this the car in Le Mans trim with flat wings and no diveplanes and minimal front splitter size.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

I figured Newtons, which come out to be 2250 pounds/force DF @ 220kph(137mph). Considering the average for a current Prototype at 150mph is reported to be around 2500 lbs, this would be in the ballpark. Being strapped down in a wind tunnel with a constant ride height might cause the numbers to be slightly optimistic. Converting back and forth between Metric and 'Merican number systems always screws my head up.

A quick division of Downforce in Newtons by drag in Newtons gives us
10110 ÷ 2462 = 4.11 (S102i) That is somewhat different from their result, but not totally out of the range.

oh, and great point about the Aero restrictions. I commented about them but totally forgot to include them in my analysis. That's why I'm a mail man and not an engineer. lol!

dh

ps.. it may state in the article, but we don't know if this is the max df the car can produce with full attack wing settings and front winglets, or is this the car in Le Mans trim with flat wings and no diveplanes and minimal front splitter size.

There's a math error in the original posting of the L/D:

10110/2462= 4.106 and not 4.4

likewise, 10060/2358= 4.27:1 and not 4.5:1. The units are Newtons.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Motor Fan Illustrated magazine featured Dome S102 of the 2010 version(not 2011 ver).
The car was named S102i(Improvement).
A detailed update is performed besides a feature rear section.
As for the suspension, the hydraulic bump stopper(third element) is used at the front and the Dome's oridinal damper is used at rear.
In addition, upright made of titanium was adopted (Only Qualifying is used in S102).

The simulation time of S102i is 3:23.593(Sarthe circuit).

(Aerodynamics data by Dome)
---------drag(N)---DF(N)--DF/Fr---DF/Re---L/D---CoP
S101.5----2580----8770----3541---5229---3.4----40
S102------2358---10060----4575---5485---4.5----48
S102i------2462---10110----4600---5610---4.4----48

Which car was the S102i, the car that would have raced this year at Le Mans?

[cmk]

That is my interpretation, Mike.

[templer]

I think the figures are all for a Le Mans version. I have never heard that Dome tested a high downforce version.
The L/D figure is not bad but also not fantastic. The 2003 Bentley Speed 8 was in the same region. Since that the downforce was reduced by the rules, but I had thought that there were more improvements. But comparing wind tunnel data can only give a small intention, cause different wind tunnels, model sizes, and measure methods resulted in different figures.

It is really a shame that there is no good technical article about this great car here in Europe or the USA. The RCE article was also not one of the best of this magazine.