World Sportscar Championship

[ss_collins]

Dunno if y'all heard my rant on globecast about a new WSC but to be honest I think its time...

But why set up another sries with its own races - thats pointless - why don't we just nominate some existing races.

Who would do it - Pug and Audi, some GT2 guys and maybe some of the better P2 runners. Not a huge field is it but! if it shared its races with ALMS/LMS/JLMC then it may work - for example Sebring would be an ALMS and a WSC race with all cars scoring points towards both


Heres my idea of a calendar based on the 2007 season

Sebring 12H
Spa 1000km
Silverstone 1000km
A Japanese race (Suzuka 1000km / or Motegi to keep Honda happy?)
Petit Le Mans
Mil Milhas

thats it...

[canam]

It would be a nice idea; however, given that these three championships run to three different sets of regs makes it rather difficut.

[brielga]

I love the idea however I do not think it is feasible to attract many privateers to do the cross-over without proper funding. The low attendance at Sebring and PLM from Europe means there should be some substantial change in the funding/sponsorship for European teams to take part on those races. Same goes for ALMS teams coming over to Spa and Silverstone. The 1000 Milhas thing will NOT work unless some seats are rented out to locals (I know I repeat myself but being South American I have to say it...). I think a good start would be to put together a package (points, funding, etc.) for teams crossing over to Sebring and PLM and see what happens. A global group of sponsors would probably be the best answer...

[The359]

Honda owns Suzuka, so they'd be happy with that as well.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Dunno if y'all heard my rant on globecast about a new WSC but to be honest I think its time...

But why set up another sries with its own races - thats pointless - why don't we just nominate some existing races.

Who would do it - Pug and Audi, some GT2 guys and maybe some of the better P2 runners. Not a huge field is it but! if it shared its races with ALMS/LMS/JLMC then it may work - for example Sebring would be an ALMS and a WSC race with all cars scoring points towards both


Heres my idea of a calendar based on the 2007 season

Sebring 12H
Spa 1000km
Silverstone 1000km
A Japanese race (Suzuka 1000km / or Motegi to keep Honda happy?)
Petit Le Mans
Mil Milhas

thats it...

Norburgring 1000k?
Monza 1000k?

Or am I looking at the past through my rose-tinted specs?


Why Silverstone as the UK round?
Am I alone in regretting the fact that we no longer have sports cars at Brands? Despite what The Bernie and Max Show thinks, it's still a great circuit!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by brielga

I love the idea however I do not think it is feasible to attract many privateers to do the cross-over without proper funding. The low attendance at Sebring and PLM from Europe means there should be some substantial change in the funding/sponsorship for European teams to take part on those races. Same goes for ALMS teams coming over to Spa and Silverstone. The 1000 Milhas thing will NOT work unless some seats are rented out to locals (I know I repeat myself but being South American I have to say it...). I think a good start would be to put together a package (points, funding, etc.) for teams crossing over to Sebring and PLM and see what happens. A global group of sponsors would probably be the best answer...

I agree. It the European teams can not come over to Sebring ( March) and PLM ( October) do to funding issues, how would they be able to travel to the other countries?

Sponsorship is found be each team. Promotors dont provided travel and prize money. What little a promotor may provide is no were near the amount needed to fund a race team.

[AstonGeoff]

What's with the preoccupation with "World" Championships??

The MM has proven that even reasonably well funded private teams can't afford to travel from Europe, and probably the other way too, remember the very short lived ELMS???

To me it seems that the LMS has been well supported because teams can get a sensible budget for 5 races that are all within easy trucking distance.

SRO want to take the FIA GT's worldwide, but then everyone says that GT1 is all but dead with no new cars coming along and the existing ones being very expensive. So who wants to watch a bunch of GT2 Porsche 911's and Ferrari 430's. Maybe an upgraded GT3 is a good idea, but as can be seen around the world BIG engines and BIG wings will always be more popular.

Why not just have with regional champoionships then a once a year face off at one race with the top teams from each championship getting automatic entry. Oh we already have that....

Having different rounds of different series making up a World Championship will just about mean that only a team with a big budget to travel could win the title. Would a team have the budget to do LMS/ALMS/JLMS plus WSC? I doubt it, so would it mean less teams in LMS/ALMS/JLMS, probably?

At the end of the day Endurance racing just doesn't attract the sponsors the way F1 does, and never will, I think it owuld be better to build strong regional championships personally.

[minimangler]

we've been through this before, countless times.

do we need to do it again?

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by minimangler

we've been through this before, countless times.

do we need to do it again?

We've all been to Le Mans before, countless times.
Do we need to do it again?......

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

Why not just have with regional champoionships then a once a year face off at one race with the top teams from each championship getting automatic entry. Oh we already have that....

BINGO.

[LeMans.pt]

First, one question:

Is it necessary a FIA agreement to transform LMS into a World Championship?

I asked that because the WSC ended, if i well remember, because of the FIA imposed rules concerning the utilization of the 3.5l F1 motors to the WSC... would be a good move to star again a relationship with FIA??? I doubt it!

Even so, in my opinion, probably 3 regional championships (Americas, Europe and Asia) would be the best thing to do, and than 3 World Championship Races, probably Le Mans 24, Daytona 24 and Tokashi 24 (?).

With regional championships, there would be a better costs control, avoiding a rise in the team's budget that would put apart the smaller (and necessary) private teams. Besides that, what about the system used in F1 of low costs (or free costs) transportation of the teams equipment? Shouldn't be something similar here?? What does the LMS now in that field??

[Fogelhund]

I have no particular issue with creating a World Championship Endurance Award, within the confines of existing schedules.

Just award points for existing series/races, towards it...

For now that would be...

Sebring
LM
Spa
PLM

If the JLMC ever becomes viable, perhaps add one race from there as well. For the most part, the real interest would be Manufacturers, so the costs wouldn't be increased for the privateers, who would likely just run in their existing series anyway...

For ALMS teams... it means just running at Spa, in addition to their ALMS schedule...

For LMS teams, it means just running at Sebring and PLM in addition to their LMS schedule....

Not a GREAT deal of additional cost, and it should start out small...

[PorscheFanNo1]

Remember IMSA and WEC had joint races in the late 70s/early 80s. 6h of the Glen, Mosport, Road America, Daytona, Sebring, Brands, Spa, LeMans, Monza, they all was in the WEC in 81, and they didnt have the same set of regs, GTP cars came in 81 (Lola T600) when WEC had Group5 cars.

[jhansen]

What's the point? Le Mans is sportscar racing's world championship. All of these ideas sound great, but they really only appeal to a small group of people, namely sportscar enthusiasts.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by jhansen

What's the point? Le Mans is sportscar racing's world championship. All of these ideas sound great, but they really only appeal to a small group of people, namely sportscar enthusiasts.

As does sportscars as a whole... so if a manufacturer/sponsor see's the point in being involved at all, they probably see value in appealing to sportscar enthusiasts. Otherwise, they see some marketing benefit to being involved, which they may also see in a "World Champion" status.

[brielga]

indeed, you need 4-5 manufacturers for this to work as well, only a real competition at high level will attract audience, sponsors, TV... uncle Bernie will not fancy it however, or even worse he might buy it if it works!

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

As does sportscars as a whole... so if a manufacturer/sponsor see's the point in being involved at all, they probably see value in appealing to sportscar enthusiasts. Otherwise, they see some marketing benefit to being involved, which they may also see in a "World Champion" status.

How many people are watching world wide? It aint a lot. The manufacturers are using their success at Le Mans to market to non sportscar racing enthusiasts. Le Mans has the name. WSC does not.

[duke_toaster]

I think the best way to run it would be to run the ALMS and LMES (possibly JLMC, better to make it in to a pacific one) season from August/September to mid-May with those two series being qualifiers for Le Mans, the winner of which would be world champion.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by brielga

indeed, you need 4-5 manufacturers for this to work as well, only a real competition at high level will attract audience, sponsors, TV... uncle Bernie will not fancy it however, or even worse he might buy it if it works!

Well... it worked very well in the 80's and he (Bernie) didn't stop until his fingers trough the FIA killed the Group C WSC in the beginning of the 90's...

6 hour races are "non selling" to TV, and probably it would be better to do a mix. 1 12 hours race, and 50/50 on 6 and 3 hours race... a few sprint races would be good also (as an extra race in the 3 hour races)... it´s just an idea.
DTM as 2 manufacturers, WTCC as 3 manufacturers.... FIA GT as none (all privateers), what you need is real competition until the last lap, and not the "walk trough the park" we've been seeing... Look at ALMS, even if domination passed from Audi to Porsche... they have it all... people in the circuits, tv coverage from main tv broadcasters... big sponsors...

Personally i think that LMS is doing a very bad job on selling the series

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by jhansen

How many people are watching world wide? It aint a lot. The manufacturers are using their success at Le Mans to market to non sportscar racing enthusiasts. Le Mans has the name. WSC does not.

Don´t think so... is the 80's the WSC was as serious F1 rival, thats why Bernie trough FIA imposed that 3.5l F1 motors mandatory to the Sportscar Manufactures that proved to be the worse nightmare to the championship and caused the extinction of it.

[duke_toaster]

[QUOTE=LeMans.pt]Well... it worked very well in the 80's and he (Bernie) didn't stop until his fingers trough the FIA killed the Group C WSC in the beginning of the 90's...

6 hour races are "non selling" to TV, and probably it would be better to do a mix. 1 12 hours race, and 50/50 on 6 and 3 hours race... a few sprint races would be good also (as an extra race in the 3 hour races)... it´s just an idea. /QUOTE]

IMO British GT has it balls on - two one hour races. Albeit for TV and to make it a little more endurancey, make it two one hour races but with about 10 mins break between them.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Don´t think so... is the 80's the WSC was as serious F1 rival, thats why Bernie trough FIA imposed that 3.5l F1 motors mandatory to the Sportscar Manufactures that proved to be the worse nightmare to the championship and caused the extinction of it.

Quite true, but the 80's was how long ago? At this point it would be starting from scratch all over again with an entirely different climate.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Quite true, but the 80's was how long ago? At this point it would be starting from scratch all over again with an entirely different climate.

too long, too long... you're right, it would be difficult indeed

[rdjones]

As I'm a bit board the evening, I worked out the championship would look using Sam's calander, I have had to drop the race in Japan as it didn't take place but after 3 rounds the championship would look this in each class.

BTW the top 8 in each class score points using the following scoring system 12,10,8,6,5,4,2,1

LMP1
Pescarolo Sport 20
Team Peugeot Total 17
Rollcentre Racing 14
Team Peugeot Total 12
Audi Sport North America 12
Creation Autosportif 10
Audi Sport North America 10
Pescarolo Sport 8
Intersport Racing 8
Chamberlain Synergy 6
Autocon Motorsports 6
Arena Motorsport 4
Charouz Racing 4
Scuderia Lavaggi 1

LMP2
ASM 18
RML 18
Barazi Epsilon 16
Andretti Green Racing Inc. 12
Binnie Motorsports 10
Team LNT 10
Saulnier Racing 10
Lowe's Fernandez Racing 10
Horag Racing 10
Penske Motorsports 8
Highcroft Racing 6
Dyson Racing Team 5
Dyson Racing Team 4
Embassy Racing 3
Bruichladdich 2
Penske Motorsports 1
Ranieri Randaccio 1

GT1
Team Oreca 24
Team Modena 24
Alphand Aventures 16
Corvette Racing 12
AMR Larbre 12
AMR Larbre 10
Corvette Racing 10
Alphand Aventures 7
Racing Box 5
Jetalliance Racing 5

GT2
Virgo Motorsport 22
Farnbacher Loles Motorsports 18
GPC Sport 13
Risi Competizione 12
Imsa Performance 10
Scuderia Villorba 10
Flying Lizard Motorsports 10
Spyker Squadron 8
Tafel Racing 8
Speedy Racing Team 7
Farnbacher Racing 6
Tafel Racing 5
GPC Sport 4
Ice Pol Racing Team 4
Rahal Letterman Racing 4
Thierry Perrier 2
Felbermayr-Proton 2
Petersen / White Lightning 2
JMB Racing 1
Risi Competizione 1

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I think the best way to run it would be to run the ALMS and LMES (possibly JLMC, better to make it in to a pacific one) season from August/September to mid-May with those two series being qualifiers for Le Mans, the winner of which would be world champion.

Straddling parts of 2 calendar years would never work for most sponsorship deals. The IRL tried that years ago and found that corporate sponsors were very unhappy with such an arrangement.