Motul M1

[chrisobr]

Thanks for posting the photos, Allen.

Chris

[randyzimmer]

Originally Posted by chrisobr

...
The one crashed was owned by a fellow who worked for Skip Barber and ran Lime Rock and went to work for Virginia Motorsports Park a couple years ago and I read has left. (sorry, name escapes me but he's still active).

I think the other was the "Save the Whales" car in Canada when it was still competitive.
It is orange and very fresh, nearly unused.
Hope this helps..

Chris

Hi!
Just stumbled upon this site - thanks Google - and found this thread.
The un-named gent is Mike Rand, sorry Mike.
He bought the 001 car from Opert and was on his way to Road Atlanta when a car jumped the median and hit his trailer damaging the car.

That chassis was used for some parts and then lost in a real estate transaction - I was too late to retrieve it from storage before forclosure.
Since it was bent, I'm sure it was simply thrown away, hardly heavy enough to bother getting scrap for.
It came along with a working car bought from a man in Connecticut named Ron Ignatowski. He had bought the car minus engine/transmission and shocks. I had a VW 1600 water-cooled engine installed and it was used by him for lapping days at Lime Rock.

The other chassis - 006 - was bought from a fellow in Canada who raced Formula 4 and he had used all the heims, hose fittings, rack and roll hoop to build his cars.
This one came with an FT-200 and some original bodywork and turns out to have been Chris O'Brien's car.

[randyzimmer]

The following are corrections to the above.

Originally Posted by randyzimmer

...IT had a VW 1600 water-cooled engine installed...

...201 car from Opert and was on his way...

...The other chassis - 206 ...

Sorry, without them on front of me, I forgot exactly what they read
and then ran afoul of the 5-minute edit rule.

[Chris Townsend]

So can we update Motuls a bit on the basis of Randy's information

201: Some confusion here:
Bobby Rahal said in period that he had the original Motul - suggesting 201- buying it late 1974 from David Ralston
Rahal definitely sold the car to Tim Fortner and Butch Owsley [have photos of it in Rahal's Crescent Valley Foods colours] who sold the car to Dwight Zillig [Novato CA]. f/s Autoweek 31.3.78 p.39 'driven once in two years' Dwight, 14 Sinaloa Ct, Novato CA 94947. Does this go back to Opert and then to Mike Rand at this point [1978] or is this another car and 201 has always been on the East coast?

202: Tate of Leeds Atlantic car for Meek and later Pryce. Seb Barone has an ex Pryce Motul in 1974 which could be this or 204

203: Team car for Schenken, probably to USA.

204: Team car for Scheckter, only ran twice, then used by Pryce. Possibly Al Justason's 'ex Pryce' car in Canada in 74. If so then to Bob Beyea 1975. By 1977 probably Dean Lundgreen [Milwaukee] then to Roy Drew [Milwaukee] 1978 as FC, 1983 probably the car for sale by Greg Dauterman, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin ['ex Scheckter']

205: Team car for Jaussaud. Probably to USA

206: Team car for Pescarolo and Schenken. To Chris O'Brien described as ex Pryce by Canadian Motorsport Bulletin but also described by O'Brien AW 26.4.75 p.34 as ex Scheckter, though as that description came from Opert, who knows! Sold to Opert 1975 and probably the Rondel for sale by him in Formula in June 1975. 1982 Randy Zimmer Can Am. The plate conflicts with Justasson's description of his car as 'ex Pescarolo' and in the photos I have it has Pescarolo's name on the bodywork. 206 is given for Pescarolo's car in 1973 MN reports and by F1R. However, a bit of plate swapping at a pre-race rebuild and Bob's your uncle... These Motuls could have identities every bit as stable as the Rondel BT38s of the previous season...

207: Team car for Wolleck, to Iain McLaren then Chris Landrum 1977, to California and retained to 1979 at least. Perhaps the car of Jim Vawter in 1980, unless this is the ex Zillig car still in California.

208: Team car for Pryce in F2. 1974/75: Roger Seacrist chassis no given AW 20.3.76 p.32 612 N. Michigan Chicago Ill 60611

209: Late season second Atlantic car for Tate run for Viv Candy at late season Croft alongside Meek. This or 202 retained for Meek, won Northern Single Seater Champ 1974, f/s in AS 1976, 'not used since 1974'

210: Unraced until 1975 when the basis of the Safir F2

The American users I can't currently account for are Peter Symond at Watkins Glen in 1974 which might be 203 or 205 as all the Motuls were said to be sold to Opert by the works, and all others are accounted for at that point. Ignatowski runs in FC in SCCA NE division and scores points in 1976. That suggests a car from the NE like Symond or Barone

Chris

[randyzimmer]

Here's a link to most of my Rondel stuff:

[URL="http://www.randyzimmer.com/video/rondel/"]http://www.randyzimmer.com/video/rondel/[
/URL]

and a picture of my arrival home to Buffalo, NY from Ron Ignatowski's in Connecticut, with a double deck trailer and Fiat 128 1100 packed to the roof in spare parts:



I thought number plate pics were here too but I can take some and post them soon.

[allenbrown]

Welcome Randy. Great to have you here!

[randyzimmer]

Got it!

http://www.randyzimmer.com/video/ron...l%20plates.jpg

also, some new pictures.

[randyzimmer]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Welcome Randy. Great to have you here!

Thanks!
If anyone wants to know about the single-seat Can-Am, I was there for a lot of it. I was running in support races with a Rabbit/Bilstein car along with the Super V's and Can-Am (this was the typical weekend pairing) a few years before I got the Rondel so I was around a lot of it if not in it. We ran with some CART and some Trans-Am too but that was hit and miss.

For example, Paul Tracy recently said he never raced a closed car before last year but he sure blew the bottom end out of a 944 Turbo at Sanair.

I don't know ALL the dirt but I saw a pretty good amount of it.

[randyzimmer]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

...The plate conflicts with Justasson's description of his car as 'ex Pescarolo' and in the photos I have it has Pescarolo's name on the bodywork. 206 is given for Pescarolo's car in 1973 MN reports and by F1R. However, a bit of plate swapping at a pre-race rebuild and Bob's your uncle... These Motuls could have identities every bit as stable as the Rondel BT38s of the previous season...

I talked with Mike Rand a few (? probably 10 or more) years ago by phone and I believe he said he had talked to Ron Dennis about the Rondels. He indicated that whatever car was sitting around became whomever's car.
The cars were generally split into factory and contract. The factory drivers had no specific factory car and the contract drivers were more consistent in car used but still not set in stone. Consequently, when Jody became world champion, all the Rondel owner's claimed to have Jody's car. Rand had previously told me (1983) mine (#201) was Pryce's but Chris says the same about (#206) and this newer info makes it all make sense.

Sorry this is so 4th hand and unscientific but it is something I remember having been told. If your research shows all the drivers were factory and none paid to play, this is all wrong.
rz

[Mike Rand]

Mike Rand here having just "found" this thread and maybe can clear up a bit of confusion.
I bought my Rondel/Motul from Fred Opert over the winter of 1973/4. When I got it it was white with Titan Properties on the wing, that was Chris Meek and Tom Pryce, the car is in the book "The Lost Generation" by David Tremayne, pages 71 and 72, in white livery.
Opert brought in at least 6 of these cars to be converted from F2 trim to F Atlantic/FB.
The damage to the car whilst trailering it, on an open trailer, no one had enclosed trailers then, to Road Atlanta for a National [not the Runoffs, a summer National] was not extensive and was easliy fixed. I went out for qualifying only to understeer off onto wet grass at Turn 7 and went directly to the armco with the left front. I always kind of wished I could have blamed that accident on the jerk who punted the car on the trailer at a stoplight in New Jersy on the way to the track, but it was simple driver error.
The insurance company adjuster, who wouldn't have known a race car from a roller coaster, accepted the damage as having been done by his policy holder and we agreed a price. Only issue was, they didn't want the remains, so I bought it back from them for almost nothig. I got the settlement check and bought a Brabham BT40, sold the remains to Ron Ignatowski, who had if for a few years and remotored it, then sold it to Randy Zimmer, as he related a few posts back.
Unfortunately, I have no records of chassis number so Randy is the final authority.
Great car when the sweet spot of aero and shock setup was found but could be evil if of the right track, so to speak.
Of little interest is the fact that in Tremaynes book is another car I ultimately owned, the ex-Brise Modus M1, page 145. It was an F3 car, I imported it in 1976/7, stuck an 1,100cc BDJ in it and ran FC finishing second to Bill Anspach at Atlanta in the Runoffs in '77.

[Bruce McLaren]

Responding to Michael Oliver's query I'm glad to report my dad, Iain McLaren, is still alive and well and still living in Scotland.

I've read the Rondel Motul M1 thread with interest and vaguely recall going to Ron Dennis's workshop when my dad bought his Motul. He had a choice of 3 all at various stages of rebuild. I was only about 8 so its all quite vague although speaking to my father recently he thought he had bought Pescarolo's car which is contrary to the suggestions above but would agree with Ron Dennis's view that they drove what they were given.

He did indeed have a succession of cars all of which were pretty special in my memory. Chocolate drop was followed by a Chevron B35 then a Gp 6 Chevron B36 and Chevron B40 before Brett Lunger's McLaren M26/6 which set the outright lap record at Croft with Ingliston gearing!

[Supernova]

Does anyone know where these chassis are today? I know that 206 has gone back to the UK for rebuild but does anyone know the chassis numbers of the remaining survivors?

Mike.
Austin Texas.

[randyzimmer]

#201 is still in my attic in Buffalo, NY USA

[Supernova]

Originally Posted by randyzimmer

#201 is still in my attic in Buffalo, NY USA

Hi Randy,

I was in touch with you many years ago! Anyway how much of 201 do you have? I assume all the good parts went with 206?

Mike Short,
Austin Texas.

[randyzimmer]

I kept the complete car as it ran Can-Am so original parts that needed updating for the rules were sent to the UK along with tanks and mounts for the Cosworth and other parts that weren't used in Can-Am trim like the nose.

[UARAblack10]

Chassis 201 and 208 are currently resting in rural Illinois..

[Supernova]

Originally Posted by UARAblack10

Chassis 201 and 208 are currently resting in rural Illinois..

Hello UARAblack10,

Do you know any history of these chassis? Can you elaborate? These cars have fascinated me since they were used back in the day (1973). All information greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike.

[Supernova]

A couple of years ago chassis number 207 was for sale on Race-Cars.com (Philadelphia area) with a new Bahner tub. It looked to be an excellent project - anyway does anyone know where #207 went? Here it is:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/oth...10795026ss.htm

[Cy M]

Hi all, I owned Rondel F2 207 for about 10 years selling it to the UK around 2008.
I had Marc Bahner do a complete tub rebuild (the best!) as the rivets in the old skins were huge and not aircraft. Car was complete, less engine with original FT200. It lived in the New England area most of it's life formerly owned by John Stowe. I was told it was raced by Seb Barone back in the 70's out of Opert's shop in New Jersey. It went to the UK with a new Walt Modelski nose (heavy but nice looking). I hope the new owner finds this site. Regards to all, Cy

[Supernova]

Originally Posted by Cy M

Hi all, I owned Rondel F2 207 for about 10 years selling it to the UK around 2008.
I had Marc Bahner do a complete tub rebuild (the best!) as the rivets in the old skins were huge and not aircraft. Car was complete, less engine with original FT200. It lived in the New England area most of it's life formerly owned by John Stowe. I was told it was raced by Seb Barone back in the 70's out of Opert's shop in New Jersey. It went to the UK with a new Walt Modelski nose (heavy but nice looking). I hope the new owner finds this site. Regards to all, Cy

Cy,

Thanks for posting a bit about #207! I am gradually putting together a history of the various chassis and your information has added to my data. Most of the information I have has come from this forum, some deduction and yes there is some speculation. So any information from an owner or previous owner is important. For instance I have the following on #207 - ex Bob Wollek then to Iain McLaren (1974) in Scotland. Then to California (through Fred Opert) to Chris Landrum. I show #204 as possibly Seb Barone's car but this could be wrong. Do you know if the car you sold to the UK is back on the track?
Thanks,
Mike,
Austin Texas.

[Cy M]

Hi, No idea, and haven't heard from the new owner. I check you tube for historic F2 video from time to time. Cy

[randyzimmer]

I talked to Fred Opert the other day, he was gracious enough to return my call and relate what he remembered. He says he bought four cars and had them flown over along with a T70 and all the spares they could fit by Rupert Keegan's father's service. Two cars went to Chicago to a single team and suggested locating the wife of one of the driver's who worked at Carl Haas'. He thought her name may be Judy but I think he may have meant Vicky O'Connor. He went on to explain his high regard for Ron Dennis who has accomplished so much without having much in the way of formal education. Fred went on to tell how Ron's support of a new hire during those Rondel years came back to him as the former employee became the liaison/Press Officer to Phillip Morris and we know what that helped accomplish. So Fred suggested that anyone who wanted to know the most about Rondel in '73 locate John Hogan who may have the best knowledge of the driver lineup.
Mr. Opert finished up by saying he did not run the cars himself but he knew them as being a bit heavy but sturdy with good characteristics that drivers had no complaints with. (Bertil Roos once commented to me that the cars had a not so good turn in but it looked as if I had that fixed(!)) Fred also said that starting money had everything to do with the revolving chairs in the cars, as a French driver in France got the team more cash and so forth so he had drivers he'd call to put in his cars each year at specific events.

[randyzimmer]

Hi, At the Glen Vintage the past weekend, the subject of Rondel came up and today I was going over all the info I had.
I dug out the number plate and started looking closely.
The 20 looked fine but the 1 is not done in the same manner.
Looking at the back side, it looks as if it was a wide number originally, like anything other than a 1.
This would explain the two number one's claimed here and mine isn't it.
Any ideas?

[Neil Duke]

The 1 looks fine,same as the 1973 script,the 20 appears to have been done at another time.

[randyzimmer]

Thanks Chris for the note.
The 1 is beat into the plate,
the rest of the script looks milled/cut.
Not sure how they did it back then but the 1 is different.