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Old 4 Apr 2017, 22:58 (Ref:3723826)   #101
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I've learned not to take racing too seriously. 2008 felt and still feels like my favorite F1 season. Then again, having started watching IndyCar this season, it feels like the best racing I've ever seen.

Back in late '00s I doubt I would have preferred IndyCar over F1. F1 had more technical competition and was still pure from today's IndyCar things like push-to-pass, double-points finale, and closed pitlane when the SC comes out was a short-lived thing in F1.

I really got tired of racing when F1 started getting gimmicky in 2010s, and I've found my interest in racing in other series these days. IndyCar is my favorite form of racing, just because of the great racing it provides. Even if F1 returned to what it was like in the late '00s, I doubt I'd prefer it over IndyCar. IndyCar has its flaws but I don't take it so seriously, just enjoy the great racing it has to offer. I'm fine with its lack of technical competition, if anything it means closer racing on-track.

Similarly, I might hate IMSA e.g. for its caution procedures. Think about Sebring last year, like six cars or so restarting nose-to-tale in the last 30 mins. For sure that didn't represent the performance of 11 hours and 30 minutes. But I didn't take that so seriously, it also offered great racing for the victory.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 23:47 (Ref:3723831)   #102
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I've learned not to take racing too seriously.
I try not to take anything seriously outside of family. Life's far too short.



I'm sitting on my deck, mid 70s degrees F, listening to a college baseball game, having a Brother Thelonious Belgian Style Abbey Ale after a particularly long day. I'm fine with this deal.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3723832)   #103
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I try not to take anything seriously outside of family. Life's far too short.



I'm sitting on my deck, mid 70s degrees F, listening to a college baseball game, having a Brother Thelonious Belgian Style Abbey Ale after a particularly long day. I'm fine with this deal.
I call that improving my death to beauty ratio....
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 00:57 (Ref:3723838)   #104
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I try not to take anything seriously outside of family. Life's far too short.



I'm sitting on my deck, mid 70s degrees F, listening to a college baseball game, having a Brother Thelonious Belgian Style Abbey Ale after a particularly long day. I'm fine with this deal.
Was a glorious day to drive around Atlanta, and only a bit of congestion next to our storage snafu, especially on the last day at that job. Grilled dinner, few 420 ales and quiet at the gf's house. All is good and hopefully the city is good with 2 days off the second full week of work and 3 days at the track in a bit.

IMSA may be questionable rules and competition, ALMS wasn't much different, PWC is basically a read about it after the fact event and WEC is always forgotten by me. But baseball is back, trees and shrubs are flowering, sorry Augusta National, and race fuel is in the air soon. I can't complain, and a decent 2-3 week break from here a couple times a year does help as well.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 01:02 (Ref:3723839)   #105
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I call that improving my death to beauty ratio....
Indeed

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Was a glorious day to drive around Atlanta, and only a bit of congestion next to our storage snafu, especially on the last day at that job. Grilled dinner, few 420 ales and quiet at the gf's house. All is good and hopefully the city is good with 2 days off the second full week of work and 3 days at the track in a bit.

IMSA may be questionable rules and competition, ALMS wasn't much different, PWC is basically a read about it after the fact event and WEC is always forgotten by me. But baseball is back, trees and shrubs are flowering, sorry Augusta National, and race fuel is in the air soon. I can't complain, and a decent 2-3 week break from here a couple times a year does help as well.
I was in Decatur and Lilburn today. Love some spring break traffic.

Still haven't figured out dinner. Think I'll have another Rec Ale while I ponder it some more...
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 02:08 (Ref:3723851)   #106
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Indeed



I was in Decatur and Lilburn today. Love some spring break traffic.

Still haven't figured out dinner. Think I'll have another Rec Ale while I ponder it some more...
My wife had 8 ladies from work over for dinner tonight so I've been confined to the back half of the house with the kids. It's ok, I snuck some booze with me.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 06:51 (Ref:3723891)   #107
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As I have said before to guys in this thread.

Expand your racing horizons, it's as simple as that. And if you are still fed up with it after this, then it's time to take it or leave it.

I very quickly got fed up with circuit racing, there are SO many other forms of racing that offer more interest, closer action, a less PC experience and a more personal show if you like.
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Old 9 Jun 2017, 19:06 (Ref:3739774)   #108
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A positive post here for once. Today, we're actually kinda spoiled for coverage of races like Le Mans and what not with the races being on networks that at least some basic cable/satellite packages have, online forums and sites like DSC and SC365, and social media.

I may be only 30 years old, but I can remember that about 20 years ago it wasn't easy for someone to follow international road racing, or even regional series, even in North America. You had to hope that the races would show up on TV, catch one of the highlights shows like Raceday on what was then TNN or RPM2Night on ESPN2, or catch results in your local news paper or racing news magazines. I only knew what happened at Le Mans from 1998-2005 because of catching highlights shows on Speedvision/Speed Channel, from Car and Driver or Motor Trend magazine, the next ALMS race that showed up on TV, or, as in 2005, I got the Le Mans results from watching the NASCAR race at Michigan that weekend.

Once I got the internet and started to be able to watch the races on satellite TV (I had to con my grandma into letting me watch the races if I couldn't watch them at my father's house on weekends), that opened things up. Granted, there's negatives, such as people trolling you just to be annoying and stuff like that, but would we rather go back into what I consider the dark ages of sometimes having to be lucky to get race results and such?
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Old 9 Jun 2017, 19:52 (Ref:3739788)   #109
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Old 9 Jun 2017, 20:48 (Ref:3739803)   #110
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Accessibility to races (and all sports) increases tremendously every year. Sometimes, we have too much exposure and ease of access to multiple facets of life can be detrimental if allowed. But being able to actually view races I could only read about on paper or in a library is tremendous.

Amazing times we live in. Embrace it.
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Old 9 Jun 2017, 20:55 (Ref:3739804)   #111
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Amazing times we live in. Embrace it.
Because the sad truth is that the future for motorsport is not good - electric cars? Self driving cars? Once self driving cars are the norm motorsport is dead and buried. I mean - Roborace - who the hell wants to watch that?
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Old 9 Jun 2017, 22:04 (Ref:3739812)   #112
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Naw, horseback riding is still a pretty popular sport even though the horse as a means of transport is pretty much dead... Same with sail boats and sailing as a sport.

I think there's a way for motorsports to survive the end of the ICE and the advent of self-driving cars, though it'll probably be without manufacturer support in the way we know it today.

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Old 10 Jun 2017, 07:05 (Ref:3739877)   #113
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Because the sad truth is that the future for motorsport is not good - electric cars? Self driving cars? Once self driving cars are the norm motorsport is dead and buried. I mean - Roborace - who the hell wants to watch that?
You'd be surprised. I'd actually want to watch if the tech on display there was available to examine (which it's supposed to be).
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Old 10 Jun 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3739896)   #114
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All those unemployed drivers.......
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Old 10 Jun 2017, 08:46 (Ref:3739897)   #115
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Naw, horseback riding is still a pretty popular sport even though the horse as a means of transport is pretty much dead... Same with sail boats and sailing as a sport. ...
Very much agree.

Even when daily motoring becomes more automated there will be motorcars kept as playthings, just as people still ride horses for fun.

Even if only electric cars were allowed to race that would be entertaining, at least you'd be able to hear the commentary as the cars went by
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Old 10 Jun 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3739903)   #116
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Yep, Hindhaugh could whisper and we'd still hear him...... Then again, that's never going to happen is it? We're bound to get at least one 'Oh my goodness!' this year, I guess....

Anyhow, right now, I'm anything but tired of racing. I'm tired, but that's because I have to work hard most of the time. But today I'm off to France to watch the world's greatest motorsport event. Tired of racing - I think not.....
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 11:24 (Ref:3740211)   #117
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Ive been thinking that for awhile now .

Ive seen , what I consider the best years for me from 80s to 05 , group C to 3.5L , V12 V10 and original tracks .....

Sportscars for me , were protos ..... now we have a 4 manufacturer , single engine formula and a P1 class few can afford . 2 of the chassis might not even feature in the race this year (Dallara and Riley) , and they all sound the same .

Im looking forward to the Privateer P1 class next year , i hope around 8 chassis .

Bigger interest for me these days are GTEpro , GTam and GT3 , sad to say .
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Old 11 Jun 2017, 21:31 (Ref:3740349)   #118
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And that's awful too with its BoP. You've no reason to be happy about any of it.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 04:01 (Ref:3740400)   #119
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I agree with the take the Sam Collins from RCE has on penalizing teams for being excessively secretive with their cars, such as what got Porsche in hot water with the ACO twice already this season.

In short, no fine, no threats of in race time penalties, in his opinion, the ACO should just insist/force teams that get caught to put their cars out on pit road to be photographed, one fully built up, the other with bodywork removed if the team has two of them:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/b...st-of-secrecy/
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 11:32 (Ref:3740483)   #120
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Then they'd just take parts off of it and say it is fully built.

When looking at these problems you've got to think like the team does. A time penalty works because no team is going to risk a race to put up barriers.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 16:07 (Ref:3740555)   #121
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Not if the ACO are supervising and serious about enforcing it. If the teams won't go through with that, charge them an exorbitant fee--like say a quarter or a million dollars or way more--in exchange for secrecy. The Mafia does it for "protection", and so do insurance companies, who's basic concepts are owed to the Mafia. Or then tell them to show the cars, pay a huge fee in exchange for weaseling out of it, or then threaten them with an in race time penalty.

Sam's point is make the punishment fit the crime. And I agree with him, as well as on the point that if it's a set up day, maybe the ACO should be more lenient. But if it's during an official session, let alone a pit walk or autograph session (the reason why the ACO copied the concept from the ALMS was to promote fan and media interaction with the teams), then hammer them.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 16:39 (Ref:3740569)   #122
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I don't agree. The punishment isn't meant to fit the crime, it's meant to completely deter it. They were clearly caught doing something wrong, and now have been told that the penalty will be so harsh that they won't do it again. I really really don't see the problem with that one.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 17:08 (Ref:3740590)   #123
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I don't really see the problem with having barriers up during part of a set up day. As Sam said, from what he saw, during the actual test day itself, Porsche didn't do anything to impede his view. Only thing they did was use a set up plate/bracket that everyone uses on the front of there cars while doing set up work.

As I said, if it's during a pit walk or autograph session, or an official test or practice session, fine, the ACO can do whatever they want. During a set up day when there's not much going on, don't enforce it. Also, I do think that the media and fans should keep their distance when serious work is going on, be it a team or the ACO. The ACO have shields and barricades up during LM tech inspection and scrutineering, so why aren't we calling them hypocrites? Because they're doing a job.

And as long as fans and media people mind their manners, there's no excuse for teams to go black project all the time. And we have to remember that this started a decade ago with Peugeot, and the ACO let them get away with all kinds of ridiculous crap with obscuring parts of their car from the public. And it turned out that there wasn't really anything special going on anyways. That backed down when Peugeot left, and though Audi and Toyota pulled such stuff to a (much) lesser degree, they usually weren't p***** about it unless you got in their way.

Things seemed to pick up after Porsche got back in, and when Audi had a new car last year. I'd argue that you'd have some excuse if you were doing something very different than what everyone else was doing, like the R18 early last year. But even then, when Audi released detailed photos of the R18 last year, if you saw the front of a F1 car, there wasn't much going on that was special aside from front end packaging.

I've also said several times that teams going out of their way to keep secrets is a waste of time. Just crash a car once, and whatever tricks you were doing will be found out. And if governments can't always keep top secrets from it's citizens, how do teams expect to keep stuff hidden in a much more public forum? Wouldn't the time and energy doing that be better spent doing something else?

Not to mention that something that I'm actually tired of in racing effects this: that all the really good ideas have been thought up already. Everything is either an evolution of something done before, has been banned, or has been done to death.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3740592)   #124
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I don't really see the problem with having barriers up during part of a set up day. As Sam said, from what he saw, during the actual test day itself, Porsche didn't do anything to impede his view. Only thing they did was use a set up plate/bracket that everyone uses on the front of there cars while doing set up work.
Just because someone didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. This is a common attitude with gaming of all things. Someone reports a bug, and the whole world claims it didn't happen because they don't have the bug. Clearly something did happen, otherwise the ACO would not have responded. I love Sam, and love his work, but him not seeing something is not proof it didn't happen, unless he camped outside the Porsche garage all day watching it.

I guess I'm just missing the point here. The teams were told to stop doing something. Porsche kept doing it. They were punished. They continued to do it. They were then told about the new heavy penalty if they were to continue. I have no problem with this.
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Old 12 Jun 2017, 17:55 (Ref:3740617)   #125
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My point is that this is starting to look more and more like it's something that the ACO are doing for "their" people, not just the fans and media. It's not often that fans or even media people tour the pits routinely during set up days. If it's an official session or the day of one, or during a pit walk or autograph session, fine, the ACO can punish the offense however they see fit, which seems to be a deal of three strikes and you're out as far as in race penalties.

And as long as fans and media people behave themselves within the etiquette that the ACO enforces on their part, there's no good excuse for the teams to shut down around them.

However, if there are secrets (which I doubt), if a team's unwilling to do so during a set up day, force the team into a make up date where they exhibit their cars. And it's not like the Porsche has anything new going on outside of external bodywork, since the tub and powertrain is the same as it was in 2015.

Granted, I do agree with you in that the reality probably is unless the ACO make it so inconvenient or a pain to do the exhibit that teams will think twice about bending the rules with garage visibility too far, threats of in race penalties might be the only thing that keeps them from pushing things too far.

Now teams know that they get, aside from a $5500 fee, two freebees from the ACO on this issue. The third strike will probably screw them out of the race, which is probably deserved if you push your luck too far and knowing what the ACO's stance is. Whether it's for the benefit of the fans and media, or that's just a positive (for us) byproduct of it is debatable.

Last edited by chernaudi; 12 Jun 2017 at 18:01.
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