[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If it is structured as you say (and I don't know how McLaren is structured). That is not true. If McLaren Racing is part of McLaren Group. And the Racing part would be the target. They would only need to acquire the racing part. Now, that would have to be in coordination with McLaren Group. But the point is they don't have to buy ALL (or controlling interest) of McLaren Group to get the F1 side.

I have no opinion one way or another regarding the rumor. I tend to think McLaren would not be looking to totally sell the team. Now something similar to what Mercedes has done, maybe. Note that Mercedes F1 is owned 1/3 Toto, 1/3 Mercedes and 1/3 Ineos.

Imagine a McLaren-Porsche or McLaren-Audi that is still run by existing McLaren organization, but with VAG cash infusion including full manufacture support on the power unit side.

Richard

That is how it is structured, have a look at the McLaren Group website. McLaren Racing is a wholly owned subsidiary of the McLaren Group and this is the list of are the shareholders, as posted by crmalcolm:

Mumtalakat Holding Company 56.4%, TAG Group Limited 14.32%, Nidala (BVI) Limited (Michael Latifi) 9.84%, Favorita Limited 5.78%, Perlman Investments Limited 5.77%, McKal Holdings Ltd 5.24%, Acanitt Limited 2.65%.

So, if McLaren Racing is the target, Audi would need at least to acquire a controlling stake in the McLaren Group.

[S griffin]

I think McLaren would only consider selling up to them if it was needed. As it is, their finances seem to be better than they were during first UK lockdown last year and seem to be getting along fine, so I would not expect them to be bought out. Could be proved wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time!

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So, if McLaren Racing is the target, Audi would need at least to acquire a controlling stake in the McLaren Group.

Could the shareholders not agree to sell Racing to Audi and keep the rest? I mean, I have no idea if that’s a good idea or not, but surely it’s theoretically possible for a business to sell a part of itself?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So, if McLaren Racing is the target, Audi would need at least to acquire a controlling stake in the McLaren Group.

To be pedantic - they could also achieve their aim (if that is the case) through a significant influence (not necessarily controlling stake) at the parent level, or through a (partial) devolution of the subsidiary.

As I said though - Bahrain and Qatar agreeing on a deal?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

To be pedantic - they could also achieve their aim (if that is the case) through a significant influence (not necessarily controlling stake) at the parent level, or through a (partial) devolution of the subsidiary.

As I said though - Bahrain and Qatar agreeing on a deal?

I suppose they could but that is somewhat tenuous, compared to having an actual share ownership in the company.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Could the shareholders not agree to sell Racing to Audi and keep the rest? I mean, I have no idea if that’s a good idea or not, but surely it’s theoretically possible for a business to sell a part of itself?

Yes. which is why I said to acquire just the racing part would require coordination with McLaren Group. It could absolutely be done.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

To be pedantic - they could also achieve their aim (if that is the case) through a significant influence (not necessarily controlling stake) at the parent level, or through a (partial) devolution of the subsidiary.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As I said though - Bahrain and Qatar agreeing on a deal?

Good point.

I think all of this is hypothetical. Also, I think everyone is missing the point that if VAG obtained a controlling interest in McLaren Group, they would be buying/controlling the automotive side. And I think VAG buying McLaren Auto would be a big story.

I think there are a number of reasons why this deal is probably not very likely.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Could the shareholders not agree to sell Racing to Audi and keep the rest? I mean, I have no idea if that’s a good idea or not, but surely it’s theoretically possible for a business to sell a part of itself?

They could do and some businesses do sell off their subsidiaries.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So, if McLaren Racing is the target, Audi would need at least to acquire a controlling stake in the McLaren Group.

Assuming that McLaren Group is structured similarly to other companies that have subsidiaries, then like those companies, there is nothing to stop them selling that part of the company to a willing buyer without having to take control of the overall group. This sort of thing happens all the time with businesses around the world, for example when Liberty bought FOM from Mr E, they didn't take control of the rest of his business.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Assuming that McLaren Group is structured similarly to other companies that have subsidiaries, then like those companies, there is nothing to stop them selling that part of the company to a willing buyer without having to take control of the overall group. This sort of thing happens all the time with businesses around the world, for example when Liberty bought FOM from Mr E, they didn't take control of the rest of his business.

Indeed, there is nothing to stop them selling of a subsidiary, if that's what the share holders agree to do.

[Oldtony]

Meanwhile Daniel is in need of a replacement Mercedes Power unit.
Can we have one like Lewis had in Brazil Please Sir?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Indeed, there is nothing to stop them selling of a subsidiary, if that's what the share holders agree to do.

And the already have done so this year:

McLaren Group agrees sale of McLaren Applied

'Following a strategic review to focus the company's growth as a global luxury supercar and elite motorsport business, McLaren Group has agreed to sell its Applied business division to Greybull Capital.'

[bjohnsonsmith]

Autocar have an interesting article on the sale of McLaren Applied. The current management team will still lead the division and work will still take place at McLaren's Woking headquarters.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ndraising-push

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Autocar have an interesting article on the sale of McLaren Applied. The current management team will still lead the division and work will still take place at McLaren's Woking headquarters.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ndraising-push

Two interesting lines in that article (IMO):

'It also sold its Woking headquarters for £170m in 2020 and a minority stake in the McLaren Racing Formula 1 team for £185m earlier this year. '
'Automotive will now become McLaren’s core profit driver, with a focus on electric vehicles.'

So give that McLaren Group has already sold part of their stake in the Racing Team - which would mean two things:
A) Obtaining a controlling stake in the team is a different proportion of ownership to control of the group.
B) It is entirely possible to purchase the team without changing the ownership of the group.
C) The Automotive part is now the most profitable part of McLaren Group.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Stand down, it's being refuted:

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/insid...tatement-sale/

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Very careful choice of language in that statement.

Absolutely.

15 Nov: 'McLaren’s technology strategy has always involved ongoing discussions and collaboration with relevant partners and suppliers, including other car makers. However, there has been no change in the ownership structure of the McLaren Group.'

17 Nov: 'McLaren is in talks with potential partners including Audi, a further source has confirmed to Autocar - but this source stresses that other potential investors, such as BMW, are also involved as preliminary discussions ramp up.'

'All the parties that have shown an interest in McLaren are said to have begun their approach as a result of interest in entering Formula 1 with the team, although the source acknowledged that some had then widened their conversations to include the road car arm of the firm.

The structure of McLaren means that the sporting and automotive arms of the firm have separate ownership structures. Both sides of the company have undergone heavy restructuring in recent times, including fundraising and job losses, as well as the sale of the McLaren Applied Technologies division and lease-back of its Woking HQ.'

[FIRE]

Of course F1 is a totally different league compared to Le Mans and other forms of motorsport but taking over McLaren is that really how Audi/Porsche work?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Of course F1 is a totally different league compared to Le Mans and other forms of motorsport but taking over McLaren is that really how Audi/Porsche work?

I think the existing agreements mean that entering by taking over an existing team is a lot more achievable than forming a new entry.

The speculation was around as long ago as 3 Mar:

"If Volkswagen Group (VAG) did commit to entering F1, it would be likely to be with either its Porsche or Audi brands, sources say.

And it is not clear whether any entry would be as a full works team, in the manner of Mercedes, or as an engine supplier to an existing entrant.

VAG is said to have had initial exploratory talks with three teams - Red Bull, McLaren and Williams.

[...]

McLaren - whose team principal, Andreas Seidl, is the former head of Porsche motorsport - is embarking this season on a new customer engine contract with Mercedes.

A McLaren spokesperson said: "We never comment on speculation.""

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think the existing agreements mean that entering by taking over an existing team is a lot more achievable than forming a new entry.

Good point.

Somehow always expected if VAG enters it would be as engine supplier of Red Bull or take over Sauber.

[crmalcolm]

Updated livery for the season finale:

[Mike Harte]

Is this to celebrate taking sponsorship money from a tobacco company (Reynolds) by plastering the name of their e-cig product all over it?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Is this to celebrate taking sponsorship money from a tobacco company (Reynolds) by plastering the name of their e-cig product all over it?

Partly - yes.

'The livery designed as part of the Vuse 'Driven By Change' campaign will race at the Abu Dhabi GP

McLaren Racing and partner BAT’s brand Vuse today unveiled a bespoke livery designed by UAE-based artist Rabab Tantawy as part of the Driven by Change campaign for the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

Driven by Change gives emerging creatives a platform to showcase their work to a global audience through motorsport. The campaign strives to champion up-and-coming artists, aged over 25, who may not receive the visibility or representation they deserve. This is a part of Vuse’s ongoing commitment to offer unique platforms to spotlight up-and-coming talent.'



Dare I say it - 'sport washing' and virtue signalling from a tobacco brand?

[S griffin]

I'd like to see it on the track, when it doesn't have that funky background that are in the shots. It's hard to judge how good it is in those shots

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Updated livery for the season finale:

Looks like they have an LGBT thing going on there, with that rainbow effect.

[Richard C]

I like the look so far. Not a fan of any hint of tobacco related sponsorship (including vaping)

Richard

[chillibowl]

yeah not a fan of the cig messaging. and more then a bit annoyed they do stuff abroad that they know full well that that cannot do at home.

on the other hand, this swinging 60s vibe reminds me of austin powers so its hard to take seriously and/or be offended by.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

yeah not a fan of the cig messaging. and more then a bit annoyed they do stuff abroad that they know full well that that cannot do at home.

Where is the cigarette messaging?