Race control to race car radio communications.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

Jeez Al, you just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself on this point!!
Firstly, the offence that you were fined for was probably "Failure to comply with flag or light signals". It's pretty open and shut - did you comply or not.
Also, if your defence included the info about a tinted screen you open yourself up to the question " does it breach C(b)8l of the '09 Blue Book regarding tinting of screens / glass?
As piglet said, the positions of Flag points are prescribed in the Track Licence. There are very few ways to get them moved on the day.

And Piglet, it's not only the officials who are governed by the Blue Book! It is afterall called "Competitors and Official Yearbook"!

I merely suggested that was one factor that may have called me to miss the flag, I cannot convert to right hand drive and cannot commission a non top tinted screen for a Camaro as they come tinted as standard and my race club despite my requests will not allow plastic screens.

And Claire as I have said a humptenth times now it was to be a suppliement to what already is in place so if you were unsure the board would still be out to double check.

[terence]

At least the Sun Strip keeps the sun out of your eyes Al.

[Piglet]

Going back to the original point...what info is given over the Legends radio?

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

At least the Sun Strip keeps the sun out of your eyes Al.

And I may add its a championship requirement so maybe something should be done about that.

[terence]

What,all cars to be fitted with sun-strips?

[SWCRacing]

Typical info that the Legends get is:
At the start, close up, keep the pace, going for a start
Car off at corner...... left
Oil on left / right at ............., keep left / right (not all follow this instruction)
Car x, your driving is being observed
Leader on last lap

Basically, eveything you get from the flags!

[Tim Falce]

On a positive note I suppose if we had these radios we wouldn't need the flags so that'd be less to look out for and if I know where a car is off the track I wouldn't have to slow as early, or at all, and not bother about thinking about what's happening around me, aha I'll make a good racing driver after all.

[terence]

Just like everything else Tim,we'll be fitting airbags next.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

Typical info that the Legends get is:
At the start, close up, keep the pace, going for a start
Car off at corner...... left
Oil on left / right at ............., keep left / right (not all follow this instruction)
Car x, your driving is being observed
Leader on last lap

Basically, eveything you get from the flags!

I really like the sound of that, I want some of this.

Tim jests but it has a ring of truth in what he says, have you stopped for a moment and thought about just why so many people are missing flags as has been highlighted on this thread? Well my theory is no they are not all a load of stupid inconsiderate fools putting drivers and marshals at risk and wantonly ignoring instructions but just maybe they are on occassions so pre-occupied keeping the car on the track in the heat of a race with other cars in close proximity and prehaps appalling conditions they simply fail to see the flags. In these circumstances a radio would be a very useful addition to the safety of the race proceedings.

Oh and Terry yes the championship regs for all the CTCRC championships make it mandatory to fit a sponsors sun strip. Oh and please step into the 21st century! ;-)

[terence]

It has been known for some to consider themselves above obeying Flags,let alone creating yet another possible get-out for them.

[Al Weyman]

I find that hard to believe.

[terence]

Rest assured,it is totally true,there are people who post on here who could back me on this.But being who they are,I'll not ask them to do that.

[Al Weyman]

Surely a pattern of persistant offenders would emerge and they would be suitably chastised. Also if you had the radios the 'I never saw the flag' excuse would be rendered irrelevant because to not see the flag or hear the message is a bit far fetched if all the other guys did. IMHO yet another good reason to try this technology. If the guy uses the excuse his battery is flat then make having a non working radio (unless force majure) a punishable offence say docked ten seconds or whatever NOT fined.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

Typical info that the Legends get is:
At the start, close up, keep the pace, going for a start
Car off at corner...... left
Oil on left / right at ............., keep left / right (not all follow this instruction)
Car x, your driving is being observed
Leader on last lap

Basically, eveything you get from the flags!

I find it difficult to reconcile your final statement with some of the examples you give, particularly the second & third. I don't claim to be a good flaggie, but I've worked with some excellent ones & I've yet to find one who can impart that level of detail about a problem simply by waving a flag. To me, your examples illustrate very eloquently just why radios are a useful tool - not as a replacement for flags, as there will always be a delay while information from the observer on post is relayed to the radio operator - but as a source of supplementary information.

[Pistol Pete]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

Typical info that the Legends get is:
At the start, close up, keep the pace, going for a start
Car off at corner...... left
Oil on left / right at ............., keep left / right (not all follow this instruction)
Car x, your driving is being observed
Leader on last lap

Basically, eveything you get from the flags!

You also missed (in short oval legends) the constant barrage from about 1/2 distance of instructions to the back markers of where they should put there cars & when the leader is approaching them & other chatter that doesn't add to the race experience. If a raceiever only replicates what flags show then there is no problem, except where the flags show different information to the radio. I think there is a great likely hood that they are overused & distract from the personal challenge of racing & better flagging & lights (like F1 use now) is a better way forward.

Pete

[SWCRacing]

Dave,
As said previously, I am both a competitor and a Clerk. In my personal opinion:

If racers used their eyes and brains, rather than taking the latter out before putting on their crash helmet, they would not miss flag signals. Yes in bad conditions there is always the possibility of missing a flag, but they should be adapting to the conditions. And I have raced in possibly the worst rain in this country for many a year, at 3am with broken wipers for three hours.

If you see a flag do what it says in the Blue Book!!!! If you don't see it, expect to face the consequences

And I have been done for overtaking under yellows and ignoring a black and orange flag, on both occaisions I put my case to the Clerk and used fellow competitors as witnesses and got a verbal warning, possibly because I went in to the hearing with the attitude that I had transgressed and admitted my fault.

It is NOT down to the Clerks to be "holding the hands" of racers who can't or don't want to abide by the regulations. There is a book of regs which as competitors we all sign to say we understand and will abide by them, so just do that!!

And whilst I can see the use of this system on short track ovals, I see no reason to use it at most race circuits in this country

[terence]

Well said that Man!

[Al Weyman]

I give up.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Rest assured,it is totally true,there are people who post on here who could back me on this.But being who they are,I'll not ask them to do that.

"do you know who I am"

[terence]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

"do you know who I am"

One of those"in joke's" that cannot be shared Claire [At least,not on here!].
Funny,the things you get to know about on "The Other Side".

[Asp]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

My personal opinion, & it's just that, a personal opinion, is that in-car radios do have a role to play. Flags are invaluable as first line of communication & often all that's needed, but in many cases they can't give as much information as is desirable. As an example, one of the problems with safety car flags/boards &, more crucially, red flags, is the time they take to travel round the circuit; whether as immediate notification of problems, imparting more information than can be done with flags or simply as a back-up to flags, radios would make a valuable addition.

Spot on post Dave, as ever.
I think that, instead of people wondering what may or may not happen, is to look at what does happen in the one (?) series it's used in (including long track) - ie Legends.

Messages (SC, Red Flag) are passed round immediate, and do beat the flags. So, the cars are slowed quicker which makes it safer. Also, from a racing perspective, with the former it means less racing laps are spent under safetly car

With yellow warning flags, on certain posts no amount of waving will state exactly what's happening. If you know there's a car in the wall on the left round a blind bend, you will be able to adjust your driving line well in advance of just seeing a flag.

If you get a Black/White warning flag - was it for bumping that driver at turn 3 or running wide constantly at turn 7?

It's a pity that we don't have any existing long-circuit Legend competitors on the forums who could give their first hand experience of it. But, as long as people remember that it only supplements existing signals, I can't see how it can do anything but make matters safer. The Legends are certainly well disciplined nowadays (well, after they've driven into each for the first time and Steve Hill has given them the mid-race rollocking!! )