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Old 10 Jun 2020, 14:45 (Ref:3981159)   #1476
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Yes I remember the Lotus naming rights row, although the problem there was that there were two different Lotuses. Williams only have their performance engineering on the side, so they don't have a different company related to it for now
Assuming we are talking the same thing, "Williams Advanced Engineering" (WAE) was sold end of 2019. Actually it was a majority share that was sold. Williams holds a minority share. Is that Williams Group or the Williams Family that holds the minority share? If Williams Group is up for sale, I assume that might include the remaining shares of WAE? When WAE was sold, did the trademark name for that business travel with it? I assume it did.

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Old 10 Jun 2020, 14:55 (Ref:3981161)   #1477
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is prize money, the FIA bond, historical payments tied to the team name? or has that been done away with for the new concorde agreement?

although last place is last place so not much prize money there anyways.
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 15:02 (Ref:3981164)   #1478
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Williams Grand Prix Holdings plc sold a majority share in Williams Advanced Engineering Limited to EMK Capital LLP

https://www.pitpass.com/66441/Willia...ed-Engineering
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 15:55 (Ref:3981169)   #1479
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is prize money, the FIA bond, historical payments tied to the team name? or has that been done away with for the new concorde agreement?

although last place is last place so not much prize money there anyways.

May be wrong but I don't think that a new "Concorde" deal has been satisfactorily negotiated. Possibly because a team based in Italy doesn't appreciate the fact that the new owners of FOM started out with demands that they will lose all their "hard won" financial and other advantages!
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 16:40 (Ref:3981173)   #1480
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I’m trying to remember when the last Concorde agreement was signed. Of course we know Ferrari haven’t been very happy with the latest share of the deals. Maybe they will come to some agreement with FOM or the FIA or maybe they will concentrate more on getting their own house in order first
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 16:50 (Ref:3981175)   #1481
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I’m trying to remember when the last Concorde agreement was signed. Of course we know Ferrari haven’t been very happy with the latest share of the deals. Maybe they will come to some agreement with FOM or the FIA or maybe they will concentrate more on getting their own house in order first
If you Google F1 Concorde Agreement, it comes up with this link to Wikipedia that has a list of all the Concorde Agreements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde_Agreement
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 17:03 (Ref:3981178)   #1482
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Wow, it’s been that long? Seven years since the last Concorde agreement? Thanks for the link. I really hope the new one is signed off soon, but of course there are a few hurdles first. It’s going to be interesting over the winter to see if anything has come of it
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 17:44 (Ref:3981186)   #1483
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May be wrong but I don't think that a new "Concorde" deal has been satisfactorily negotiated. Possibly because a team based in Italy doesn't appreciate the fact that the new owners of FOM started out with demands that they will lose all their "hard won" financial and other advantages!
yep sounds like they are still negotiating...i wonder how much, if at all, the terms have changed from pre covid to post? surely with a bleaker economic outlook for all industries, i would think post covid deals will all look worse then one negotiated and signed before the world turned upside down. Ferrari may wish they had already signed.

i guess when Racing Point changed their name they were able to keep FI prize money because the other teams consented (unanimous i believe) but they did forgo their points(?).

so under the old agreement, a name change would presumably still require unanimous consent or there would be a loss of prior years money.

even if it is just last place money, one would think any potential new owner would still not risk losing it.
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Old 10 Jun 2020, 17:54 (Ref:3981187)   #1484
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Not specific to Williams, but here is an interview from about a week ago with Chase Cary. He is talking about a handful of topics including the next Concorde Agreement (at about 10:24 in the video)

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...1vEHGNZRR.html

As this is published by F1 itself, it's not hard hitting questions, but rather a way for them to push out talking points. But either way, it is informative. He talks very briefly about the agreement. That it was nearly done, but the pandemic caused them to change focus to short term issues (2020 season). That once things are more settled they will move back to getting the agreement finalized.

He talked about earlier in the interview that recent events accelerated change that might have otherwise have taken much longer. I suspect that the final agreement is unlikely to be done until much later this year? Especially as teams have a better measure of the pandemic impact. Basically, once they are having races and seeing how that works, then I can see teams thinking again about agreeing on the future.

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Old 14 Jun 2020, 17:41 (Ref:3982085)   #1485
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well after today at least Williams has something to celebrate did rather well at at the virtual le mans
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Old 14 Jun 2020, 21:06 (Ref:3982108)   #1486
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Unfortunately it’s not quite what they had in mind. They would rather concentrate on their F1 program, that is where their heart is. It will be a sad day when Williams is missing from the grid. Let’s just hope they have a better season than last
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 02:20 (Ref:3982121)   #1487
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I ran across this video earlier today. It is from the 3rd. I don't think it has any new "news", but it is interesting to hear how the situation is being positioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32y8TEmWd7U

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Old 15 Jun 2020, 05:47 (Ref:3982126)   #1488
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I ran across this video earlier today. It is from the 3rd. I don't think it has any new "news", but it is interesting to hear how the situation is being positioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32y8TEmWd7U

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There was also this video(1:25) where Brundle states that Bernie informed him he had a good buyer lined up for Williams 2 or 3 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEnWJnr3nfU

I think that this is probably legitimate and they should have jumped then!

Bernie had clearly read the writing on the wall at that point. and offered a solution.
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 06:33 (Ref:3982129)   #1489
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I ran across this video earlier today. It is from the 3rd. I don't think it has any new "news", but it is interesting to hear how the situation is being positioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32y8TEmWd7U

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Yes I saw this and have read similar comments from Claire. I have to say despite her best efforts to position it as an exciting time for Williams and a good thing, none of it sounds that convincing to me.

Presumably they only have the budget to go racing this year due to the loan from Latifi secured on Williams assets and looking at the likely investors, the days of car manufacturers coming in and buying F1 teams has probably gone for ever. Laurence Stroll has done the reverse and bought an F1 team and then bought a stake in a car maker to do a 'Ferrari' with it - but essentially it is all the same source of investment.

So you are left with the billionaire 'racing dad' or hedge fund type investors - these people make their money buying and selling companies, I can't imagine they want small profits dribbling in as their return. They put investment in, add value and then sell. I am not comparing them to Williams - but look at Jordan when EJ sold up, it was sold again 3 times between 2005 and 2008 before it finally became Force India and after that Vijay Mallya was rumoured to have allegedly tried to sell it again several times before it was finally 'sold' to Stroll.

Whoever invests in Williams will have to keep investing for 2 or 3 years to re-build them in my view and if teams stay more or less the same, despite the budget cap, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes and now Renault will not forget how to build F1 cars and engines, so in a best case scenario if Williams eventually has a good turnaround it will still be scrapping for minor point places.

There is no doubt that whoever invests will be bying into Williams at the bottom both in terms of results and financially, so it does make it a target for someone who can add a bit of value, see the first uptick in results and cash income from F1 and then sell. Will there be someone in for the long term and what does the long term even mean these days. it certainly doesn't mean the 40 plus years that SFW has been at the helm.

As for the Williams name, as one person put it the problem is that unlike McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Red Bull the 'brand' has no value or reach outside of F1. Like Jordan it is 'just' the founders name that has mostly only ever operated in motorsport and aside from LM and BTCC exclusively in F1. Ironically in the sale of assets to keep the F1 team afloat, Williams sold WAE which at least did show the teams prowess outside of F1.

Going back to Claire, the reason I am not convinced by her interviews is I remember a scene in the Williams docu-film with Claire in her garden talking about Williams and the future and how she wanted to continue long term as Williams the family business that one day her family could be involved in.

That is what Claire really believes IMO, to her and SFW it is the family business and despite the corporate words she speaks, deep down she must know that when Williams gets in other investors buying Williams stake entirely or in part it is no longer 'Williams' it becomes a commodity.
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 06:44 (Ref:3982130)   #1490
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There is no doubt that whoever invests will be bying into Williams at the bottom both in terms of results and financially
I think there’s a great deal a doubt about that. The future of the current F1 business model has never been in more doubt and world governments push to non-ICE/hybrid is another massive challenge.
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 10:10 (Ref:3982160)   #1491
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Williams need to make the most of what they have now. If the car is good as it has been in testing, then it has a big chance to score points more often. Let’s hope they continue with that performance in 2021
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 13:05 (Ref:3982181)   #1492
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It will be a sad day when Williams is missing from the grid. Let’s just hope they have a better season than last
With only 2 names left from my early days of F1 (Ferrari and McLaren) I'd let Williams slither in there by the skin of it's teeth; and I'll miss it immensely also.
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 13:21 (Ref:3982183)   #1493
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I think there’s a great deal a doubt about that. The future of the current F1 business model has never been in more doubt and world governments push to non-ICE/hybrid is another massive challenge.
Non-ICE/hybrid?
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Old 15 Jun 2020, 13:39 (Ref:3982186)   #1494
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Non-ICE/hybrid?
EV
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Old 16 Jun 2020, 01:11 (Ref:3982259)   #1495
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Moving to an EV power train is not as simple as it seems or maybe it is depending on the country you live in. Europe is determined to outlaw the ICE while the rest of the world is a market that has extremely low ability, need or even the politics to change. Europe is full speed ahead but the ROW is definitely not. Take an F1 race to say the Southern states of the US will get a different reaction to taking it to California or even Australia. Besides the politics of Oz showing no intention to accelerate EV take up and the physical issues of it simply is not possible the overall sentiment of the people does not demand it.

China on the other hand is absolutely ahead of Europe in all ways but this is not seen by the ROW as China could not give a damn about how it is seen or perceived by anyone, they just do their own thing and raise the finger to the ROW. A lot of the oil surplus is being caused by China's rapid uptake of EV's both cars and commercially, 9,000 EV buses a MONTH are being made in Cina for instance.

F1 will have to gauge their market and the sentiment of the people who follow it and that will vary. I think they will find themselves as will motorsport generally between a rock and a very hard place.
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Old 16 Jun 2020, 12:00 (Ref:3982313)   #1496
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China on the other hand is absolutely ahead of Europe in all ways but this is not seen by the ROW as China could not give a damn about how it is seen or perceived by anyone, they just do their own thing and raise the finger to the ROW. A lot of the oil surplus is being caused by China's rapid uptake of EV's both cars and commercially, 9,000 EV buses a MONTH are being made in Cina for instance..
Completely off topic, China is the World's biggest importer of crude oil, so how is their rapid uptake of EVs contributing to the oil surplus? Isn't the surplus due to a combination of over production and lack of demand because Covid-19?
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Old 16 Jun 2020, 14:52 (Ref:3982329)   #1497
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Completely off topic, China is the World's biggest importer of crude oil, so how is their rapid uptake of EVs contributing to the oil surplus? Isn't the surplus due to a combination of over production and lack of demand because Covid-19?
China is still selling huge amounts of cars that are not electric, so demand for oil is still increasing not decreasing
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Old 16 Jun 2020, 15:14 (Ref:3982338)   #1498
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China is still selling huge amounts of cars that are not electric, so demand for oil is still increasing not decreasing
According to this article on The China Daily, car sales are down and I've read a similar article from Reuters.

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/2020...21727b678.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21O1JL
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 06:05 (Ref:3982561)   #1499
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Reports that McLaren are considering 'doing a Williams' and selling a stake in the team, which is interesting as Latifi has a shareholding there already and sepedning on the terms may be tempted to increase it and is considered by some as the front runner to buy Williams, be interesting to see how this pans out.
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Old 18 Jun 2020, 08:04 (Ref:3982565)   #1500
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