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Old 6 Apr 2019, 04:29 (Ref:3895629)   #276
Umai Naa
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Originally Posted by EarlCdwards View Post
friendly reminder that tct was due to start next weekend and had just 5 confirmed entries, despite allowing three types of car

stewart lines caused this mess in the first place by diluting an already tiny market for club-level touring cars and has now had to abort his breakaway to try and keep his customer cars running

there's that old myth that if you cut an earthworm in half it'll become two. tcr uk was cut in half under that misguided assumption and now everyone's trying to glue the dying ends back together
This.

In a nutshell, they're pretty much back where they started.
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Old 6 Apr 2019, 10:40 (Ref:3895668)   #277
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stewart lines caused this mess in the first place by diluting an already tiny market for club-level touring cars and has now had to abort his breakaway to try and keep his customer cars running

I would also counter that this mess was caused in the first place by TCR UK wanting to dilute a tiny market for top level Touring Cars in the Uk when the main series was already there and too strong, to try and provide a more cost effective alternative..


but that didnt work out, costs were there or thereabouts the same but with no exposure and limited promotion for sponsors. what happened to the over subscribed grids last year? and all the hype?


At least Stewart realised there was limited interest and tried to team it with a way of getting more people involved at a much cheaper appealing price.
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Old 6 Apr 2019, 15:28 (Ref:3895725)   #278
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Stewart Lines did not cause a mess. He decided to test the market for a low cost touring car series. By having a handful of rounds and allowing old cars he genuinely created a low cost formula. Ok, he hasn't had many entries, so we could say he's tried and failed, but full marks for trying.

TCR UK were arrogant enough to believe they could compete against BTCC and charged a relative fortune for next to no exposure. That the first season lasted the course was a minor miracle. Architects of their own demise. It's cheaper to drive for TG in BTCC than run TCR UK.

Stewart's series might yet attract some more entries, if it doesn't then it too may disappear.

Put simply motorsport in Britain is a minority sport and therefore has a relatively small pool of potential paying punters and therefore a limited pool of sponsors who have product to target at them.
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Old 6 Apr 2019, 21:41 (Ref:3895801)   #279
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It’s early days for Lines, but at least his is affordable
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Old 7 Apr 2019, 07:05 (Ref:3895831)   #280
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Lol, one series has a small handful of cars but there are pages and pages of criticism for it (mainly from the same small group of BTCC fanboys) while another series also has only a small handful of cars and has never actually even had a race yet but is some sort of heroic effort exempt from criticism. Mental.
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Old 7 Apr 2019, 07:32 (Ref:3895834)   #281
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Lol, one series has a small handful of cars but there are pages and pages of criticism for it (mainly from the same small group of BTCC fanboys) while another series also has only a small handful of cars and has never actually even had a race yet but is some sort of heroic effort exempt from criticism. Mental.
This. Bang on!

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Old 7 Apr 2019, 08:15 (Ref:3895835)   #282
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Lol, one series has a small handful of cars but there are pages and pages of criticism for it (mainly from the same small group of BTCC fanboys) while another series also has only a small handful of cars and has never actually even had a race yet but is some sort of heroic effort exempt from criticism. Mental.
Except TCT never had any pretentions of being bigger than it is, or claimed that it would be so popular that they would need to split qualifying into two groups, or that it was too important to be on the support package of another championship.

TCR UK massively overestimated its own position, ignored the advice of potential entrants, and still doesn't have the humility to admit that it got it wrong.
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Old 7 Apr 2019, 12:22 (Ref:3895901)   #283
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Lol, one series has a small handful of cars but there are pages and pages of criticism for it (mainly from the same small group of BTCC fanboys) while another series also has only a small handful of cars and has never actually even had a race yet but is some sort of heroic effort exempt from criticism. Mental.
If it wasn't for the massive difference in costs I would agree with you but only one of those series is living in cloud cuckoo land (IMO) with the cost/exposure ratio.

At the end of the day there is a big problem in UK motorsport that more and more people are waking up to. There are far too many series and only a tiny number get enough exposure to warrant the attention of "proper" sponsors.
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Old 7 Apr 2019, 13:09 (Ref:3895916)   #284
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Even in the US NASCAR is struggling to pull in audience and sponsors. Yesterdays xfinity (that's the second tier, is very very roughly to Cup what Clios are to BTCC) had virtually no bums on seats.

Motorsport in general is suffering from a lack of youngsters being attracted to spectating and to a lesser degree partaking.
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Old 7 Apr 2019, 13:27 (Ref:3895923)   #285
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Motorsport in general is suffering from a lack of youngsters being attracted to spectating and to a lesser degree partaking.

Would love to race but my parents and myself don't have the money to compete. Probably not the only one either. I'm 16 btw.
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Old 13 Apr 2019, 21:11 (Ref:3897287)   #286
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TCT would have probably gained less schtick from the support it's gained in BTCC over the years but the true club race fan isn't blind to the fact that this was two championships that were never going to get capacity fields taking a bite out the same minuscule cherry. TCT was formed in part because Stewart wasn't happy with TCR, he's said that somewhere before.

It's worth noting that TCR UK has also repeatedly made a fool of itself online on it's social media pages, most particularly Twitter, by sending out snappy responses to some people and outright banning ex-fans from it's pages after its calendar was announced last year. I pray whoever was behind that hasn't had their job transferred over to the new partnership, because it reeks of unprofessionalism. That's not a good look in your first year. It did attract the usual BTCC bashers, but there's also valid reasons as to why TCR UK got the criticism it did.
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Old 14 Apr 2019, 15:24 (Ref:3897452)   #287
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Motorsport in general is suffering from a lack of youngsters being attracted to spectating and to a lesser degree partaking.
It's a complex issue. Sim racing is expanding in leaps and bounds with more and more people taking part. Some say it's costs, some say it's because of social interaction issues. Times are a changing for sure.
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Old 14 Apr 2019, 22:47 (Ref:3897533)   #288
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Anyone know what the differences in costs are between top level Sim racing, and say club level actual racing?
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 07:26 (Ref:3897591)   #289
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Anyone know what the differences in costs are between top level Sim racing, and say club level actual racing?
SIM racing will always be cheaper.

My costs this year so far

5k for a car
1k to get it ready to race
£500 testing fees
£100 registration
£325 first race entry fees
£200 fuel
£100 diesel
£200 misc costs
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 08:17 (Ref:3897600)   #290
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The thing I always wonder about, is the constant need to update the hardware, when it comes to Sim racing.
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3897607)   #291
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The thing I always wonder about, is the constant need to update the hardware, when it comes to Sim racing.
That's not going to match the costs of race meetings - entry fee, fuel, getting to and from the event, overnight stays (if needed). Each event is going to be about £1000 (at least - easy to spend more!).
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 11:33 (Ref:3897624)   #292
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Well I'm sure they can figure out a reasonable cost. It depends what you pay for and what the series pays for. That said series can be done a reasonable price
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Old 15 Apr 2019, 15:12 (Ref:3897683)   #293
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I feel it’s a shame the series wasn’t sustainable. They could have made it work. It had so much potential
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Old 16 Apr 2019, 17:48 (Ref:3898055)   #294
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Anyone know what the differences in costs are between top level Sim racing, and say club level actual racing?
Depends what you classify as club racing. Sometimes you can get really lucky like I have and pick up a race car for under £1000, but then you've got race entry costs, safety updates etc. But that's for racing on proper full tarmac tracks.

If you really want to go club racing and don't care what it is, where it is or whether you'll win or not then go to Autograss. You can pick up a Class 1 Autograss car for £500 most days.
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 23:09 (Ref:3898459)   #295
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Club racing is for pro ams usually. But some are more expensive than others as you say

Autograss though is a completely different and is a proper run what you bring event
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 11:37 (Ref:3898566)   #296
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Depends what you classify as club racing. Sometimes you can get really lucky like I have and pick up a race car for under £1000, but then you've got race entry costs, safety updates etc. But that's for racing on proper full tarmac tracks.

If you really want to go club racing and don't care what it is, where it is or whether you'll win or not then go to Autograss. You can pick up a Class 1 Autograss car for £500 most days.
Give over. Were talking about circuit racing...not driving around in muddy circles. Autograss is a kin to rally cross not club circuit level racing.
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 14:40 (Ref:3898590)   #297
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The thing I always wonder about, is the constant need to update the hardware, when it comes to Sim racing.
I use to sim race in organised leagues between 2012-2018. My equipment was alright for the purpose then but its explosion in popularity in the last couple of years has driven up prices in my eyes. I rarely participate now as i don't believe i have the equipment to compete. I cannot afford a rig or have space for one, or the costs of a £1000+ wheel let alone the cost of upgrading my PC especially with all the other life costs.
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 20:15 (Ref:3898649)   #298
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Give over. Were talking about circuit racing...not driving around in muddy circles. Autograss is a kin to rally cross not club circuit level racing.
Wow. Don't really know where to start with this.
Have you been to an Autograss meeting recently? Some of those cars are hugely expensive and very impressive pieces of engineering. Also rallycross can be anything from relatively stock cars all the way up to Group B cars and the supercars - which are impressive bits of kit in anyone's book.

No different to circuit racing - you can spend a little or a lot depending on your budget. I don't really understand why you seem to think that circuit racing is a superior discipline?
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 21:14 (Ref:3898661)   #299
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Give over. Were talking about circuit racing...not driving around in muddy circles. Autograss is a kin to rally cross not club circuit level racing.
Pretty harsh on autograss there! I'm always surprised by the level of ignorance from circuit racing crowds towards the oval racing world. Both autograss and stock car racing exhibit some seriously impressive levels of engineering and driving talent, and indeed most of the time more exciting racing to watch to boot.
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 02:00 (Ref:3898680)   #300
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Give over. Were talking about circuit racing...not driving around in muddy circles. Autograss is a kin to rally cross not club circuit level racing.
You're right it's not the same, it's far cheaper, far less complicated, usually better for spectators and not overflowing with duplicate championships over saturating its market. So I'd dare say it's better in a lot of places.

Just remember that several of your current BTCC drivers started in 'muddy circles', most notably Mr Turkington, so it's not like you can't make something of yourself. There's a lot the club circuit scene could learn from the oval folk.
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