BMW leaving WTCC??!!

Speed-King · 6 Jun 2008, 08:00 (Ref:2221068)

From murphythebear.com (sportscar rumours blog)

Quote:

Farewell to Touring
A famous WTCC program will be gone in 2009, replaced with GT2. Factory drivers currently occupied in the touring car championship will be on-track in a sports car event before the end of this year.

He mentions earlier that the new BMW M3 GTR will probably have its first outing at the Laguna Seca ALMS round...

Could WTCC survive without BMW??

Valenok · 6 Jun 2008, 08:28 (Ref:2221081)

I think, it's joke, or attempt to press Lotti and other bosses.
It's unbelievable that european program (WTCC) can be replaced by american program (ALMS). May be BMW will less support their WTCC-teams, and they would have to find new drivers and new funding? And we'll see less BMW factory cars?

Speed-King · 6 Jun 2008, 08:46 (Ref:2221094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valenok

I think, it's joke, or attempt to press Lotti and other bosses.
It's unbelievable that european program (WTCC) can be replaced by american program (ALMS). May be BMW will less support their WTCC-teams, and they would have to find new drivers and new funding? And we'll see less BMW factory cars?

They could race it in FIA GT, LMS and VLN as well, so a European branch of the GT2 programm seems possible as well.

Would be a shame to see BMW leave touring car racing after all those years.

**BertMk2** · 6 Jun 2008, 08:50 (Ref:2221096)

Is there any backup for this rumour anywhere? Or is it just random "I've got an idea" stuff from the site owner? Does the site have any credibility as a source?

I can do this too: BMW will quit WTCC and join the DTM under the new regs to take on Audi and Mercedes. Easy this rumour business isn't it?

KA · 6 Jun 2008, 08:58 (Ref:2221106)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valenok

I think, it's joke, or attempt to press Lotti and other bosses.
It's unbelievable that european program (WTCC) can be replaced by american program (ALMS). May be BMW will less support their WTCC-teams, and they would have to find new drivers and new funding? And we'll see less BMW factory cars?

That's an interesting thought- They could well be using this as leverage to try and get some rule breaks against the diesels. BMW have been willing to fight on more than one front in the past, and the M3 GT programmes were always predominantly US-based.

On the other hand, if they can persuade the ACO in Europe to look kindly on the M3 as a GT2 car (Sure I've read somewhere recently that the ACO aren't keen on the idea of the M3 appearing at Le Mans, they regard it as more of a touring car than a legitimate GT- the ALMS doesn't seem to have have the same problem with it....), then maybe a move over to GT racing could be seen as a worthwhile substitute for WTCC....

Would competing against Porsche and Ferrari in GT2 in ALMS, LMS and at Le Mans be better for BMW in marketing terms than competing against small/mid size hatchbacks from Chevrolet and SEAT in the WTCC?

KA · 6 Jun 2008, 09:05 (Ref:2221115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Is there any backup for this rumour anywhere? Or is it just random "I've got an idea" stuff from the site owner? Does the site have any credibility as a source?

I can do this too: BMW will quit WTCC and join the DTM under the new regs to take on Audi and Mercedes. Easy this rumour business isn't it?

Anything posted on 'Murphy' tends to be taken pretty seriously by the ALMS fanbase- Yes, sometimes he has been wrong, but....

Link to the piece in question
http://murphythebear.com/blog/2008/0...-and-salzburg/

Speed-King · 6 Jun 2008, 09:06 (Ref:2221116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Is there any backup for this rumour anywhere? Or is it just random "I've got an idea" stuff from the site owner? Does the site have any credibility as a source?

I can do this too: BMW will quit WTCC and join the DTM under the new regs to take on Audi and Mercedes. Easy this rumour business isn't it?

As I wrote it is a rumours blog, so he writes what he hears in the paddock, but when it comes to the ALMS or Le Mans he seems to be right more often than wrong.

I can easily see BMW being fed up with the rules-chaos in WTCC at the moment, whereas ACO-style GT-racing offers considerably more rules stability.

Edit: reading it again, he could of course mean that only the Schnitzer programm is gone from WTCC and Andy Priaulx team will stay there. Which however would be odd, as Rahal-Letterman racing is going to run the M3 in ALMS. So if that assumption is right maybe Schnitzer will run the car in Europe or they'll have two ALMS-teams...

KA · 6 Jun 2008, 09:12 (Ref:2221121)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

. So if that assumption is right maybe Schnitzer will run the car in Europe or they'll have two ALMS-teams...

They've certainly done that before- the E46 M3 V8 programme in 2001 was spread over two teams- Schnitzer and PTG

duke_toaster · 6 Jun 2008, 09:57 (Ref:2221150)

I think this is a "see first, then believe" one.

werner · 6 Jun 2008, 10:12 (Ref:2221167)

BMW has long ago stated that it was interested/working on a GT2-car. That's no surprise, since BMW is in the business of selling not only road-cars, but also racingcars. If you built a good GT2-car, you can sell quite a few: they can be raced in LMS, ALMS, FIA-GT, French GT, Italian GT, and maybe some more championships. And if they become old, you can sell them to teams that want to run Britcar, Dutch Supercar Challenge and that kind of series.
But the same goes for S2000, BMW makes money on every S2000-car they built. And they sell a lot! Just look at the independentscup in the WTCC, and the other S2000-championships. I don't know if they completely make up for the developmentcosts, but still. That's why I don't think they will pull out of the WTCC completely. They must built competetive S2000-cars for their customers, being either professional touringcarteams that run in various championships or national BMW-importers that want to show a racing BMW in their own country. That's harder with a GT-car, since there are less of those championships, and importers might be more interested in marketing the normal versions instead of the very expensive and thus less selling M3. But I can see them cutting back factoryeforts to maybe 3 cars.

werner · 6 Jun 2008, 10:12 (Ref:2221168)

doublepost

gwyllion · 6 Jun 2008, 15:07 (Ref:2221354)

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

That's harder with a GT-car, since there are less of those championships, and importers might be more interested in marketing the normal versions instead of the very expensive and thus less selling M3.

Porsche sold more then 30 2008 spec GT2 car this year and Ferrari/Michelotto almost 20 of the latest 430 GTC. Those numbers are comparable, maybe even higher, to the sale of the E90 WTCC car.

BMW Süchtige · 6 Jun 2008, 17:06 (Ref:2221418)

It seems to me that the WTCC dosen't want BMW to stay.... so why stay...

JAG · 6 Jun 2008, 18:50 (Ref:2221478)

How could the WTCC continue without Alfa and now BMW?

Fields already look thin and faintly rediculous with so many cars from the same manufactuers.

Is S2000 here to stay?

werner · 6 Jun 2008, 21:48 (Ref:2221583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Porsche sold more then 30 2008 spec GT2 car this year and Ferrari/Michelotto almost 20 of the latest 430 GTC. Those numbers are comparable, maybe even higher, to the sale of the E90 WTCC car.

I mean that BMW sells (much) more 320's than M3's for on the road. A BMW-importer who wants to promote his cars by racing one or two in it's home-country might want to promote the 320 more, since it's more important for his financial results. Add to that the fact that in a lot of countries that have an S2000-championship but no GT2-championship, there is no choise. For those importers it's important that BMW keeps building S2000-cars.

johntt · 6 Jun 2008, 21:55 (Ref:2221584)

Do you think its possible that BMW may move their works teams over to GT racing and keep the 320 running in S2000 championships on a customer basis?

Speed-King · 7 Jun 2008, 00:12 (Ref:2221654)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntt

Do you think its possible that BMW may move their works teams over to GT racing and keep the 320 running in S2000 championships on a customer basis?

If the respective sanctioning bodies keep them competitive by giving them handouts the current 320 can be competitive for another couple of years.

**FIRE** · 7 Jun 2008, 14:45 (Ref:2221930)

Rahal Letterman Racing will enter the BMWs in ALMS. So far there's no mentioning of plans to enter the GT2 in Europe. If the GT2 will be entered only in ALMS I don't think BMW will leave WTCC.

Andrei · 7 Jun 2008, 15:39 (Ref:2221967)

Well, I do not really believe that BMW is going to go away from WTCC but they are definitely looking more close to GT racing.
BMW Alpina is returning to racing in GT3 and I do not really think that they are without factory support.
If you are also looking for a job there...
http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en...orsport-1.html

**FIRE** · 7 Jun 2008, 16:32 (Ref:2221998)

Alpina is an independent car manufacaturer. They don't use the name BMW.

johntt · 7 Jun 2008, 19:43 (Ref:2222108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Alpina is an independent car manufacaturer. They don't use the name BMW.

They do have a very good relationship with BMW though, IIRC the Alpina B5 is built on the same production line as the BMW M5s and 5-Series.

werner · 7 Jun 2008, 19:43 (Ref:2222109)

They do in the link in Andrei's post. Maybe they need to include the BMW's to reach the minimum number of cars that has to be produced to be homologated? Anyway it's a great looking car. I doubt there is much BMW-input in this project, because as FIRE write's, Alpina is an independent company that happens to use a lot of BMW-parts.

werner · 7 Jun 2008, 19:47 (Ref:2222111)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Rahal Letterman Racing will enter the BMWs in ALMS. So far there's no mentioning of plans to enter the GT2 in Europe. If the GT2 will be entered only in ALMS I don't think BMW will leave WTCC.

So they built the cars in Germany, to ship them to the USA? Or does R-L built the cars themselves and races them, with the bills send to Munich? If they built the cars in Germany for R-L, I see no reason why they won't built cars for anyone who wants to pay for them. But still, without a factory or semifactoryeffort in FIA-GT or LMS, I don't see them getting out of WTCC.

**FIRE** · 7 Jun 2008, 21:02 (Ref:2222142)

BMW Motorsport (Munich) will built the cars. BMWs WTCC factory drivers will do testing. According rumours (in 2007) there were disagreements between BMW Motorsport and BMW North America about who should pay the development costs. BMW NA wanted only pay the running costs.

Speed-King · 10 Sep 2008, 13:33 (Ref:2286486)

In the most recent issue of Motorsport aktuell there's an article about BMW's WTCC-plans. It will be decided within the next two weeks if BMW will remain in WTCC, the most important argument against doing so is appearantly that the other brands in WTCC are no rivals for BMW when it comes to selling cars.

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