HSCC - The Martini Trophy - The NEW 1970s 2-litre Sports Prototype Racing car Series!

[John Turner]

I'm rather excited about this, and even had a bit of minor input. I will start a thread about it soon, but John, I urge you passionately to hold onto 'Chocolate Drop' as it is absolutely the sort of car that the new series is made for.

(I've added 'The Martini Trophy' to the thread title following the recent announcement - JT - Jan 2011)

[p261brm]

All for it John, the only sicking point I see is with the majority of events being in Europe, and those who do not have the time to allow for travel are excluded. Yes plenty of racing in the UK so buy a car to comply with UK events, and in the case I put forward that is exactly what happend, on the the premise a certain in period engine is excluded.

[john ruston]

A lot will be dependant on regs.
HSCC,Is it a Orwell free for all or real cars.
Do 210's have those Richardson ally engines,Whenever were they used in period.They are not welcome in CER from now.
Driving standards are being sorted in CER but this new idea of the transgressor paying half rebuild costs of the bashed are unenforceable.
Correct brakes and stuff.
The cars are quick enough without that development word.
We will do the HSCC series with B8,B26 and Mr Birchs GT160 if the regs are correct.If not we take toys and do CER.
HSCC is ,with Peter Auto, our preferred race series organiser .CER gives us options with 50/60's Sports GT jobs.
With Pre War vanishing that is no longer a reason to do any meeting.Legends cannot get any results correct in our bit so give up with them.

Needs another thread as we are going off topic.Leave Guards as it is.

[John Turner]

Yes, p261BRM, you could argue that Historic racing is too successful with too many meetings in UK let alone across the rest of Europe. I imagine it's becoming a nightmare for those who specialise in car preparation and support. However, there are still plenty of historic avenues to explore, so I don't see it getting easier any time soon.

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by John Turner

As for the new 2 -litre series, I'm rather excited about this, and even had a bit of minor input. I will start a thread about it soon, but John, I urge you passionately to hold onto 'Chocolate Drop' as it is absolutely the sort of car that the new series is made for.

Hmm, sounds interesting. Couldn't make the Finals so I am none the wiser! Assume this is for smaller SRs? Perhaps I should check the HSCC website...

[simon drabble]

this has been in the press - its a new series for 2 litre 70's sports racers - should be awesome. As has been said early maybe the B8's will gravitate to that series or do both and have two races at a meeting!

[john ruston]

As for Cholocate Drop .Had two offers and now deciding as still thinking of concentrating on rallies.Gareth will be driving alternative car in CER2/HSCC if Choc Drop goes but it is not mine.Notice that HMRN called Choc Drop the most famous Chevron.Don't know where they got that from!Price went up at that point.
May keep B8.Its been rearranged slightly at rear end due to a Black Country supertstar trying to mount it at Ricard.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Yes, p261BRM, you could argue that Historic racing is too successful with too many meetings in UK let alone across the rest of Europe. I imagine it's becoming a nightmare for those who specialise in car preparation and support. However, there are still plenty of historic avenues to explore, so I don't see it getting easier any time soon.

I tend to agree; though God forbid [which ever one suits] historic racing ever approaches GT3/4 GTC etc, regulations, after spending some time probing 'the written word' recently, head still spinning, regulations for car's are a nightmare without the height of flagpoles and how your transporter is prepped entering the equation!
To which alloy engines is Mr Ruston refering?
BD series were always alloy block.

[Ted Walker]

Just as a point of interest. The new HSCCC 2 Litre sports car series will be for OPEN cars only. So no B8s etc.

[morninggents]

To which alloy engines is Mr Ruston refering?
BD series were always alloy block.[/QUOTE]

The original BDA engine was iron block. The derivative BDE engine was also iron block.The original BDG 2 litre engines were also iron block with liners. The alloy block came later, probably mid 70s rather than the late 60s of the first BDA engines.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Just as a point of interest. The new HSCCC 2 Litre sports car series will be for OPEN cars only. So no B8s etc.

So no B16 either. Shame.

[John Turner]

Well, I've argued that since the Guards series allows up to and including the B8, and the new series the B19 onwards, and that, in effect, the latter is more or less a B16 with the roof cut off, the B16 should be in. I really don't understand why the prettiest Chevron should be stuck in no-mans land between the two series, and I believe, frankly, that it will, quite correctly, be allowed into the new series. If you use the 1971 Martini International Trophy race as one of the templates for this series, it had half a dozen B16s (in fact it also had B8s as well) in that race alongside the B19s and T210/212s so if it doesn't get included, I will be moaning consistently about its exclusion on here!

[john ruston]

The 210's racing as 1970 cars with ally blocks are wrong.
They get a 50 Kilo advantage in some series using an engine that did not exist.
Am I missing something.
The French banning them in CER 1 have got something correct.

These ally engines are used in WSM ,the Masters series and it is not historically correct.If you have these mid 70's engines why not mid 70's cars
Am I missing something or is it one of those things when enough supposedly important people say something happen it obviously did,I don't think so!

[John Turner]

Well, I may have misunderstood the question, John, but mid 70's cars are allowed in this series which is primarily for 2 litre Gp 6 cars built between 1970 and the end of 1978 (although I will have to check the exact dates). I cannot comment on the engines as it is not an area I'm really familiar with.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by morninggents

To which alloy engines is Mr Ruston refering?
BD series were always alloy block.

The original BDA engine was iron block. The derivative BDE engine was also iron block.The original BDG 2 litre engines were also iron block with liners. The alloy block came later, probably mid 70s rather than the late 60s of the first BDA engines.[/QUOTE]
Without the 'loft' again to confirm, first alloy block BDA 1972 and opened up to 1800cc. First BDG fitted to B21/23 end 1972 early 73 and alloy block. As the new series is dated to1976 do not see a problem with these engines, I have a suspicion the 'finger' is being pointed in the direction of some examples of FVC, and rightly so. Have to agree with Mr. Turner again re the B16, I am aware it's in period international competion life was cut a little short but to exclude what was/is Dekka's most handsome car is perhaps a little shortsighted.

[SAMD]

Try the search jobby - 'BDA What does it stand for' It will keep you amused for hours. It did me, anyway!

[john ruston]

600 kilo weight min on all 2 litre cars?

Would that solve problem.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Try the search jobby - 'BDA What does it stand for' It will keep you amused for hours. It did me, anyway!

If I remember correctly (and without looking through 'Google') it stands for Belt Drive Anglia.

Similarly MAE was Modified Anglia Engine and SCA was Single Cam Anglia.

[morninggents]

And without wanting to be too anoraky (?) FVA stood for Four Valve Anglia.

[james s]

Originally Posted by john ruston

600 kilo weight min on all 2 litre cars?

Would that solve problem.

That would mean B23 B21 B19 annd 212,s having to carry 75kg of lead that's why so few are in CER unless it's a CER special!

[banbury]

Always thought BDA stood for "Belt Drive A Series".

Shows what I know.

[SAMD]

As a 'best guess', the MAE and FVA could have originally been 'Anglia' but it would appear that as Cosworth continued the development they became FVB FVC, BDB,C,D,E etc.
I think the Alloy block came out about 1973?

[simon drabble]

I do agree about the B16's would be a shame to not allow them (and B8's) into the new series.
I love B8's but out of interest did they have a very short shelf life in period at International level? How long was it before they were superceded by B16 and others?
I get the impression Guards are the only place they can win races and then only as an invitee, which if true and at 250k makes them quite indulgent

[john ruston]

600Kilos for wing cars and 550 for non wing cars in CER.Seemed to be lots of 8,16 and 19's in CER last week.

Plus 210 and stuff.

What is a CER special?

CER ban ally blocks in non wing cars.

[SAMD]

If I was a bit more computer literate I could post this in a less agricultural fashion. But there you go. I probably wouldn't have the looks then


Twin Cam, Four Valve BDA Family
Type Year Size Output Description
BDA 1969 1601cc 120 Bhp. Belt Drive layout similar to FVA on taller Kent block
BDB 1970 1700cc 200 Bhp. Escort RS1600 rally engine, sold as kits
BDC 1970 1700cc 230 Bhp. Injected BDB for Group 2 Escort RS1600, also kits
BDD 1971 1600cc 200 Bhp. Definitive Formula Atlantic Motor, also kits
BDE 1972 1790cc 245 Bhp. Formula 2 first stretch to 2 litre rules, bigger bore, injection
BDF 1972 1927cc 270 Bhp. Formula 2 next stretch, liners brazed in to cast iron block, very successful
BDG 1973 1975cc 275 Bhp. Formula 2 and rally, development of BDF, later with aluminum block
BDH 1973 1300cc 190 Bhp. Group 2 Sports cars, shorter stroke on shorter block
BDJ 1974 1098cc 150 Bhp. Formula C, short stroke version for SCCA
BDK none -- -- reseved for forgotten project
BDL ? ? ? experimental turbo
BDM 1975 1599cc 225 Bhp. Formula Atlantic, big valve, injected BDD
BDN 1977 1600cc 210 Bhp. Formula Atlantic, Canadian Atlantic sealed motors this year only, sold as kits
BDO none -- -- not allocated
BDP 1984 1975cc 245 Bhp. Sprint car, aluminum block, BDG bore/stroke, injected, methanol
BDQ none -- -- not allocated
BDR 1983 1601cc 120 Bhp. BDA kits for Caterham Super Sevens, also 1.7 litre and 150, 170 Bhp.
BDT 1981 1778cc 200 Bhp. RS1700T turbo, aluminum block, kits for JQF
" 1981 1803cc 250 Bhp. RS200 BDT units redesigned, rebuilt, and enlarged
BDT-E 1986 2137cc 500 Bhp. Evolution BDT by Brian Hart, Ltd.