If Fisi didn't stall.....

Kirk · 5 Apr 2006, 19:20 (Ref:1571638)

Fisi, by stalling his car on the starting grid, likely saved a lot of headaches for JPM as well as the FIA. I'm sure that a rule will be included (if it is not already) to cover the situation JPM found himself in, after spinning it in the warmup lap. Anyway the question in my mind is: If Fisi hadn't stalled where would JPM have lined up on the starting grid? Last? Thats what I was expecting, but no one seemed to know for certain.

chillibowl · 5 Apr 2006, 19:27 (Ref:1571642)

my guess would be last, and i seem to recall thats were he was lined up for the first restart (but i would have to see a replay of it to confirm).

on the subject but a little off topic - when JPM spun out, the feed cut to Ross Brawn having a good laugh and seemingly looking around to find someone to share to moment with. very funny

Knowlesy · 5 Apr 2006, 19:27 (Ref:1571643)

He would have lined up last.

**Dani Filth** · 5 Apr 2006, 19:27 (Ref:1571644)

Last i'm 100% sure ..

brands · 5 Apr 2006, 19:33 (Ref:1571651)

JPM was about to start from the back of the grid until Fisi stalled, so that situation is covered by current rules.
What I'm not sure is covered is what JPM did on the second formation lap ?

Knowlesy · 5 Apr 2006, 19:34 (Ref:1571653)

What?

kipper · 5 Apr 2006, 19:47 (Ref:1571666)

I think Brands is alluding to Montoya overtaking on the second green flag lap to regain his position. I have to admit that I was surprised that this did not incur a penalty given that as I understand it, any additional green flag laps are part of the original start procedure, thus Montoya having fallen to the rear of the field should have remained there for the start of the race, but it would appear that this is not the case.

Knowlesy · 5 Apr 2006, 19:48 (Ref:1571670)

It's confusing how it is applied it must be said.

But no rules were broken it seems.

ralf fan · 5 Apr 2006, 20:00 (Ref:1571681)

Nick Fry was shaking his head and wasnt to happy with Mclaren..... intersting when you consider he is the king of rule bending....

BootsOntheSide · 5 Apr 2006, 20:14 (Ref:1571694)

I remember Spain 1997, when Berger stalled for the warmup lap, but then Ralf stalled at the sstart of the race, so the start was aborted, Ralf started at the back, and Berger reclaimed him grid position. Unless the rules have been changed, I'd say that the aborted start would allow him to retake his grid position.

Without the stall, JPM would have had to start at the back, ebcause his car went to the very back fo the line. What might have been interesting would be if he'd recovered before the last car had passed, adn was attempting to retake his grid position after the car at the back had parked there.

marzF1rocks · 5 Apr 2006, 20:18 (Ref:1571699)

well it didnt exactly work out for any1 in the race...

Menelaos · 5 Apr 2006, 21:05 (Ref:1571741)

The FIA really don't need to find a solutions to this problem. If someone is capable of spinning the car on the warm up lap he's clearly capable of doing pretty much anything, for example winning a race from the last position. And anyway, I don't think it is EVER going to happen again until the sun becomes a giant and swallows the earth. Even then songs will talk about the man who spinned on the warm up lap.

kipper · 5 Apr 2006, 21:17 (Ref:1571748)

Oops, double post, sorry.

kipper · 5 Apr 2006, 21:17 (Ref:1571749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I remember Spain 1997, when Berger stalled for the warmup lap, but then Ralf stalled at the sstart of the race, so the start was aborted, Ralf started at the back, and Berger reclaimed him grid position. Unless the rules have been changed, I'd say that the aborted start would allow him to retake his grid position.

The rules have changed. Prior to last year, should anyone stall, the start would be aborted, with the start procedure reintiated, with teams being able to tend to the cars if they wished. At the start of the second green flag the car that had stalled would be held until all the others had passed and would be placed at the back of the grid, which is no longer the case as cars that have stalled have to start from the pit lane, with a new green flag lap starting immediately.

maltafan · 5 Apr 2006, 21:38 (Ref:1571770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

The FIA really don't need to find a solutions to this problem. If someone is capable of spinning the car on the warm up lap he's clearly capable of doing pretty much anything, for example winning a race from the last position. And anyway, I don't think it is EVER going to happen again until the sun becomes a giant and swallows the earth. Even then songs will talk about the man who spinned on the warm up lap.

There was even a Champion who had an accident on his way to the grid, let alone a driver who spins his car on the warm up lap.

Menelaos · 5 Apr 2006, 22:58 (Ref:1571822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltafan

There was even a Champion who had an accident on his way to the grid, let alone a driver who spins his car on the warm up lap.

Anyway. So, even from a serious point of view, it's really not something the FIA should worry about. If someone spins his car he's the one to blame. I can't understand why they should give him back his initial position.

Kirk · 5 Apr 2006, 23:09 (Ref:1571825)

When I saw it happen, it brought back memories of Roberto Guerrero in an Indy car, spinning into the inside wall in a warm up lap... and doing some real damage. I think it was at the Indy 500, if I am not mistaken. Now THAT was embarassing.

BootsOntheSide · 6 Apr 2006, 12:46 (Ref:1572235)

Yes Kirk, and he was on pole.....

I'm aware of what Kipper's said, but it doesn't clear up whether the rules have changed specifically in the case of a car not being in its grid position when the second warm-up lap begins. That is what answers the question as to whether JPM should have been allowed to start at his original grid position.

LampCord · 6 Apr 2006, 14:33 (Ref:1572313)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

The FIA really don't need to find a solutions to this problem. If someone is capable of spinning the car on the warm up lap he's clearly capable of doing pretty much anything, for example winning a race from the last position. And anyway, I don't think it is EVER going to happen again until the sun becomes a giant and swallows the earth. Even then songs will talk about the man who spinned on the warm up lap.

Button went off the road and damaged his car on a warmup lap in his rookie year. He was clearly distracted and Schumi was doing some of his classic brake stands to heat up the tires and brakes. By the time Button noticed the car in front of him stopping he had no option but to swerve off the track. Not worthy of a song for the ages like JPM's Odyssee but maybe a childs nursery rhyme.

Kirk · 6 Apr 2006, 14:59 (Ref:1572328)

To his credit, Brundle was on top of the situation after Fisi stalled, with words to the effect "if I were JPM I'd be heading through the grid back to my starting position". JPM did exactly that, as the Honda guys and I'm sure others shook their heads, indicating that he was doing something outside of the rules. Strangely I have read nothing concerning this, so I assume that the rules are in place to cover both situations (before and after Fisi's problem).

BootsOntheSide · 6 Apr 2006, 15:43 (Ref:1572365)

The incident Lamp refers to was during the race under safety car, so it's not really relevent, but the list of drivers who've crashed or spun under non-racing conditions is pretty illustrious - Michael, Ralf, Prost, Berger, Button and now JPM. It's probably easier to do that you'd think.

Knowlesy · 6 Apr 2006, 15:49 (Ref:1572370)

Yes, to bash someone for getting into an incident under slower conditions is a bit harsh.

Montoya at least didn't end his race with his spins and they cost him very little.

Splatz the Cow · 6 Apr 2006, 15:51 (Ref:1572373)

Especially in Champcar where the tyres are cold to start with. (Bring it back.)

I wonder if Montoya spun on a painted line or something...

ian_c_uk · 6 Apr 2006, 15:56 (Ref:1572377)

I saw Sato, who was leading, spin behind the safety car at Silverstone, ended up facing the wrong way and *everyone* passed him before he could turn it around.

Felt sorry for him back then, he looked pretty talented in F3.

Ian

Knowlesy · 6 Apr 2006, 16:06 (Ref:1572390)

I remember it well. He bounced back to win the next race of the day I think? Unless that was the second race of course!

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