1980-1990 German touring car series?

[kmchow]

So what was the premier German series during the period from 1980-1999? Did the DTM exist or was it under the Group A rules? I understand there were four door Audis V8s(???) and the 190E racing in it???
The Volvo 240s and Opel Omega raced in this period?

[kmchow]

Also, are the results available online somewhere? Just curious...

[KA]

The DTM had run under Group A rules during the 80's, but gradually started to move away from them towards its own regulations- I'm a bit vague about the timescale, but as I recall in 1990/91 they were still pretty close to Group A- certainly there was a minimum production requirement for homologation (hence roadgoing versions of the Merc 190 Evo etc).

Thinking back to their first visit to the UK (Donington 1991) it was a mixture of BMW M3s, Mercedes 190s, Opel Omega, the big Audi V8 Quattros (wonderful machines!) and I think Gerd Ruch's Ford Mustangs

[TimD]

Just bringing this to the top in the hope that it inspires someone to post a site of DTM results...!

I always thought the real impetus behind the evolution of DTM specials was the introduction of the Alfa 155, in 1992 or 1993. Mercedes followed suit and Opel developed the Calibra. Wonderful days.

[Hobson]

For DTM, 1984 to 1996, visit this German website=
http://fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de/~thda/dtm/dtminfo.htm

[Thommy]

Hey, check out: http://www.faszination-tourenwagen.de, all informations about DRM of the 70's, DTM and SuperTouringcars! Great photos!

[OVERSTEER]

I just checked this site out and i'm amazed to find that Juan Pablo Montoya, Christian Fittipaldi, Tony Kanaan, and Aguri Suzuki raced in the 1996 ITC.
That site being http://fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de/~thda/dtm/dtminfo.htm

[kristof14]

it's very interesting to see the drivers who've raced in the DTM, Dario Franchitti, Keke Rosberg, Giancarlo Fisichella and Jan Magnussen.

[racer69]

The DTM started in 1984, and was run pretty much to Group A regulations until 1992. It was based on Group A, although only a single class format was used, an equivalency formula involving the use of air restrictors and weight penalties were used to get parity between 2.5 litre BMW M3s, Ford Sierra RS500 Turbo's, 2.5 litre Merc 190E's, V8 Opel Omega's, V8 4WD Audi's and so on, which worked pretty successfully, indeed by the time the ETCC wound up in 1988, the DTM was outrating it and receiving wider TV coverage.

However by 1992, Group A had been pretty much abandoned everywhere in the world. Australia & Germany got rid of it at the end of '92, Japan at the end of 1993. In 1993 the DTM created the Class One regulations, which over time where also adopted for the ITC, in which pretty much all the same teams and drivers took part at the same time.

[supertouring]

I have just written a couple of pages on this topic for my own web site. It also includes some info on the ill-fated Pro-Car series which was proposed for 1989/90 but never happened.

Try www.supertouring.co.uk

[KA]

Originally posted by racer69
The DTM started in 1984, and was run pretty much to Group A regulations until 1992. It was based on Group A, although only a single class format was used, an equivalency formula involving the use of air restrictors and weight penalties were used to get parity between 2.5 litre BMW M3s, Ford Sierra RS500 Turbo's, 2.5 litre Merc 190E's, V8 Opel Omega's, V8 4WD Audi's and so on, which worked pretty successfully, indeed by the time the ETCC wound up in 1988, the DTM was outrating it and receiving wider TV coverage.

The Audi's & Omegas (which were 6-cylinder not V8) didn't come onto the scene until around 1990/91- from my recollection (which can be a bit unreliable..) the end of the ETCC gave a lot of impetus to the growth of the DTM, as BMW in particular began to put more resources into it- in fact I think there was some speculation at the time that it might become a kind of 'ETC-by-default' as there was a lot of talk of including more overseas races- I seem to recall the FIA quickly stepped in to limit the number of overseas races a national series could have...

[kmchow]

hey KA, you mentioned the FIA stepped in to limit the number of overseas rounds? Hmmm, could they be afraid the ETC could have threatened F1? Do I smell another conspiracy theory?

[racer69]

It was a conspiracy theory. The FIA could see that the World Touring Car Championship and World Sportscar Championship had the potential to be bigger than F1, so Bernie stepped in and took charge of both series, he took charge of the WTCC at the start of 1987, and by October (infact one day after the Bathurst 1000 round) he canned it, then the talking about the Procar formula for 1989, which screwed around the next years ETCC, which was axed at the end of 1988. The the WSC was canned at the end of 1991. The engine rules had been changed for the WSC previously to be the same as F1 (3.5l), so that when Bernie canned it, the Sportscar engines could theoretically have been transferred straight into an F1 car, didn't quite work out for him though. As is always the case, what Bernie wants, he gets.

The rule about an overseas championship having only one OS round doesn't seem to be in existence now, as the DTM has a number of non-german rounds, plus the ATCC V8s already has one round in NZ, and is looking for more in Asia, did it have something to do with the EU investigation a few years back.

supertouring - Top site as well

[redshoes]

As I recall the restriction on foreign rounds was 2 events not one. Also it only applied to anything with 'championship' status, so it would apply to the DTM in it's current format.

[kmchow]

Awesome site Supertouring!!! I have been meaning to create a site dedicated to keeping the memory of ST,DTM and ITC alive for future (motorsport) generations!! Yeah, yeah, pretty corny thing to say. So what!!

I can try dig up what articles and pics I have to support the site.

[supertouring]

Thanks everyone for the kind comments. I am happy to accept offers of assistance with the site.

My reason for setting up the site was exactly the same as you suggested. With few web sites covering this period it was important to try and capture what was an important era for the BTCC and touring car racing in general.

Hopefully further successes will come, with new rules in place, but it is nice to remember the "good old days".

[racer69]

Originally posted by redshoes
As I recall the restriction on foreign rounds was 2 events not one. Also it only applied to anything with 'championship' status, so it would apply to the DTM in it's current format.

You are right, 2 not 1. Also, with regards to the DTM, does the M stand for Meistershift (Championship) or Masters now. When it returned in 2000 it stood for Masters, but has it been changed back?

[redshoes]

The previous DTM was Meistershift, the current one is just Masters.