Driving standards/ stewarding

[Aysedasi]

Is Max's list coming up next?

[ascarracinguk]

.

[Greem]

Do we think discussion of the incident itself could be confined to the race thread (or start a new one just for that)?

Let's keep this thread specific to the decisions/penalties etc that are handed out. It's hard enough tracking the discussions without every thread here turning into a 50/50 chat

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Greem

Do we think discussion of the incident itself could be confined to the race thread (or start a new one just for that)?

Let's keep this thread specific to the decisions/penalties etc that are handed out. It's hard enough tracking the discussions without every thread here turning into a 50/50 chat

Whoops. sorry, posted on wrong thread.....il delete!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Is Max's list coming up next?

When he deliberately collides with Lewis and pushes him off the road, we'll have a look!

Point being the stewards should look at the driver's record.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by wnut

.....

Point being the stewards should look at the driver's record.

Why?
It doesn't work like that in criminal law, for a very good reason. Each case is judged on its merits.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

When he deliberately collides with Lewis and pushes him off the road, we'll have a look!

Point being the stewards should look at the driver's record.

Deliberately eh? You and Lewis have obviously had an in depth chat about the incident.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by wnut

Point being the stewards should look at the driver's record.

Point being you seem to be completely misunderstanding the role of the stewards.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Deliberately eh? You and Lewis have obviously had an in depth chat about the incident.

The Stewards reviewed video and telemetry evidence. Cars 33 and 44 entered turn 9 with Car 33 in the lead and Car 44 slightly behind and on the inside. Car 44 was on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.
When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 did not avoid contact and the left front of
Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33. Car 44 is judged predominantly at fault.

From the stewards.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

The Stewards reviewed video and telemetry evidence. Cars 33 and 44 entered turn 9 with Car 33 in the lead and Car 44 slightly behind and on the inside. Car 44 was on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.
When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 did not avoid contact and the left front of
Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33. Car 44 is judged predominantly at fault.

From the stewards.

I've read it several times already. Nowhere does the word 'deliberate' appear. But the word 'predominantly' does, when allocating the blame.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by wnut

From the stewards.

That just describes the sequence of events. Neither you nor they nor anyone else has any reason to think it was a “deliberate” collision.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wnut

Cars 33 and 44 entered turn 9 with Car 33 in the lead and Car 44 slightly behind and on the inside. Car 44 was on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.
When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 did not avoid contact and the left front of Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33.

And interpreting that as meaning deliberate is not portraying what is written.

Version A - Car 44 was inadvertently on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.
When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 unintentionally did not avoid contact and the left front of Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33.

Version B - Car 44 was deliberately on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.
When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 deliberately did not avoid contact and the left front of Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33.

[Casper]

To continue on from my previous post I dread to think what is going to happen in Holland and I can't help but think F1 is going to regret it.

[greentrumpet]

FWIW, I think Peter Windsor is right about the incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4cFQAaIdo0

[Aysedasi]

Yes, I largely agree. I'm not sure I go for 50/50, but generally speaking, I think he's right on the money.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Deliberately eh? You and Lewis have obviously had an in depth chat about the incident.

It’s also not what the stewards said!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It’s also not what the stewards said!

Ah, but why let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

[Woolley]

It seems simple to me. If Brooklands was Max's corner and Lewis backed out of it, then Copse was Lewis's corner and Max should have backed out of it. The relative positions at turn in point were exactly reversed.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It seems simple to me. If Brooklands was Max's corner and Lewis backed out of it, then Copse was Lewis's corner and Max should have backed out of it. The relative positions at turn in point were exactly reversed.

Ah, it's the same as at Abbey, no collision consequently they received no attention at all, from commentators, stewards, keyboard warriors or RBR....

[BTCC frog]

I feel as though over the last few years, a new wave of Formula 1 fans seem to be sweeping into the sport, who didn't seem to exist before. These are the social media fans, who write absolute garbage on the internet and really give the sport a bad image. I have read countless comments on different sites from people who worship Hamilton or Verstappen, trolls, or just idiots who know nothing about F1 giving their extreme views on the accident, including much racism and other abuse. This saddens me, as I am sure Formula 1 fans used to be more civilised. My friend said recently that if Thanos clicked his fingers and the only people remaining were the football fans, the human race would de-evolve to the point that the apes would start to kick us out of our houses. At the time, I felt pleased that Formula 1 fans were better than this, but the incidents of this weekend has made me feel that this is no longer the case (however, these are of course not real fans of the sport - in both F1 and football), and I blame this entirely on the anonymity of social media bringing out the worst in so many people.

However, I felt relieved to discover that these social media trolls have not yet discovered tentenths. It feels good to see at least one site where it is possible to read (and participate in) intelligent discussions about Formula 1 without having to scroll through pages of abuse, or just utter garbage. Thank you, tentenths.

[Casper]

Well said, I also think extremism has reached F1 and the event in Holland has a big chance of proving that. Why we now have to have a penalty every time two cars have contact escapes me because it was never so and as I said the incident that has sparked this uproar would have been a nothing event and just mentioned in passing. As someone who has had a lot of experience actually racing I don't get it at all, both drivers were as much to blame as the other because they were both determined not to yield at any cost and no fan who has not been there can even begin to understand the thinking that occurs in such a situation and to call for someone to die over it is simply a lunatic spouting lunatic words.

So can someone tell me why there has to be a penalty every time a car leaves the circuit after contact when it is not premeditated as the Prost/Senna incident definitely was. I was always told racin' is rubbin' and get over it. I am not interested in the rights or wrong of the Silverstone incident just an overall reason that everyone reckons every contact deserves a penalty.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Casper

Well said, I also think extremism has reached F1 and the event in Holland has a big chance of proving that. Why we now have to have a penalty every time two cars have contact escapes me because it was never so and as I said the incident that has sparked this uproar would have been a nothing event and just mentioned in passing. As someone who has had a lot of experience actually racing I don't get it at all, both drivers were as much to blame as the other because they were both determined not to yield at any cost and no fan who has not been there can even begin to understand the thinking that occurs in such a situation and to call for someone to die over it is simply a lunatic spouting lunatic words.

So can someone tell me why there has to be a penalty every time a car leaves the circuit after contact when it is not premeditated as the Prost/Senna incident definitely was. I was always told racin' is rubbin' and get over it. I am not interested in the rights or wrong of the Silverstone incident just an overall reason that everyone reckons every contact deserves a penalty.

Part of it is because there is such a corporate culture in F1 nowadays, where someone, somewhere has to be accountable for all actions, accidental or otherwise. Penalties are reactive and not preventative, no top F1 driver is going to think I must not go for this move in case I get a 10 sec penalty!

So they are reactive, some sort of post move attempt at re-dressing the balance, which often appeases nobody as we saw at the BGP.

In fact, there are far too many trifling penalties that do nothing except bewidler the public, did Russell deserve a 3 place grid drop for running side by side with Sainz, for example? And the ludicrous driver grid drops for changing engines, etc.

I would drop the driver licence points as well and instead I would bring in a simple penalty that would address the incident and the outcome, which is, if you are found at fault for causing a collision that ends the race of a fellow competitor and you are able to continue, you forfeit any world champ points scored in that race.

It is pointless giving Ham in a Mercedes a 10 sec penalty when he is driving a car that is at least a second a lap quicker than most cars in the field and more over the backmarkers.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I would drop the driver licence points as well and instead I would bring in a simple penalty that would address the incident and the outcome, which is, if you are found at fault for causing a collision that ends the race of a fellow competitor and you are able to continue, you forfeit any world champ points scored in that race.

It is pointless giving Ham in a Mercedes a 10 sec penalty when he is driving a car that is at least a second a lap quicker than most cars in the field and more over the backmarkers.

Wouldn’t work.Once a driver knew they weren’t getting points they would retire.If that decision was subject to appeal you would have more lawyers than a Supreme Court hearing.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Wouldn’t work.Once a driver knew they weren’t getting points they would retire.If that decision was subject to appeal you would have more lawyers than a Supreme Court hearing.

Alan, I think that the points referred to are not Championship points, which aren't the same as penalty points on a racing licence.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Part of it is because there is such a corporate culture in F1 nowadays, where someone, somewhere has to be accountable for all actions, accidental or otherwise. Penalties are reactive and not preventative, no top F1 driver is going to think I must not go for this move in case I get a 10 sec penalty!

So they are reactive, some sort of post move attempt at re-dressing the balance, which often appeases nobody as we saw at the BGP.

In fact, there are far too many trifling penalties that do nothing except bewidler the public, did Russell deserve a 3 place grid drop for running side by side with Sainz, for example? And the ludicrous driver grid drops for changing engines, etc.

I would drop the driver licence points as well and instead I would bring in a simple penalty that would address the incident and the outcome, which is, if you are found at fault for causing a collision that ends the race of a fellow competitor and you are able to continue, you forfeit any world champ points scored in that race.

It is pointless giving Ham in a Mercedes a 10 sec penalty when he is driving a car that is at least a second a lap quicker than most cars in the field and more over the backmarkers.

I like the thinking - this would be a better system