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Old 25 Oct 2012, 20:42 (Ref:3157675)   #1
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Unfinished Business at Le Mans...

I have to thank forumer J.C. for the topic which he brought up in another thread - the topic of a manufacturer having 'unfinished business at Le Mans'.

Some marques and some teams had some success at La Sarthe and, like Matra, quit on the spot having achieved what they wanted to.

Others weren't so lucky, and toiled for years without getting their reward. Toyota really spring to mind for me as having put a lot into the race but really having unfinished business with the place. The late-great Bob Wollek never won the race.

Some manufacturers were considered Le Mans greats but have not been back to add to their history (hello Ford). Next year will mark 30 years since Ferrari and Alfa Romeo last competed at the race in a full works capacity. Some choose to dine out on their past success (Mazda).

So just a bit of a general discussion thread - who has proved their point and who maybe needs to come back.
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Old 25 Oct 2012, 21:11 (Ref:3157692)   #2
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I'd chuck all the Japanese manufacturers into the mix, but you're absolutely right about Toyota, I recall in the early 2000s talking to someone very connected to McLaren and them saying that while they were very worried about Toyota coming to F1, the fact that they'd never won Le Mans gave them grounds to think Toyota might not roll all before them.

I guess there are a couple of nuances to a thread like this

Unfinished business carries with it the implication that business could be finished. So for all that I'd have loved to see Vic Elford have a Le Mans victory under his belt, that's not going to happen now, so probably not a candidate for this.

Aston Martin is a realistic candidate. Looking back over old Le Mans DVDs I'm struck by how the Nimrod campaign had a lot more promise than it felt like at the time, and then subsequent attempts, right up to last year's debacle, have consistently promised a lot, but never quite got there.

On a driver front there's a whole French generation who suffered from Peugeot's relative under achievement at Le Mans - so Minassian, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Montagny, etc all could legitimately feel they have a reason to come back and get the result they might well figure they should have had.

Sure there are plenty more to chuck in.
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Old 25 Oct 2012, 21:30 (Ref:3157696)   #3
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On the driver front, Mario Andretti comes to mind, although like Ian's comment about Vic Elford, it's clearly business that will not now be finished.

Michael Schumacher?
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Old 25 Oct 2012, 21:43 (Ref:3157707)   #4
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On the driver front, Mario Andretti comes to mind, although like Ian's comment about Vic Elford, it's clearly business that will not now be finished.

Michael Schumacher?
I had thought of Schumacher and Mercedes as being possibles here too - although in both cases not sure either are realistic near term possibilities (or at all in the case of the driver).

Bringing things into the realm of the possible, Yves Courage should have won in 1995, in providing the Pescarolo C60H's DNA should have done so again in 2005, seeing something come back together for him for a run in 2015 would be highly welcome.
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Old 25 Oct 2012, 23:15 (Ref:3157728)   #5
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nissan so close, so far away
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 07:24 (Ref:3157840)   #6
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Renault - really should be there
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 10:08 (Ref:3157910)   #7
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Renault - really should be there
Intriguing, I'd almost classify Renault as a classic case of job done.

They came in with a clear objective (i.e. "win"), ramped up to the point where they did it, and then closed the programme down and went off to F1.

Clearly it's a long time ago, and I utterly agree that they'd massively benefit from being there, but is there a niggle in Viry Chatillon that Le Mans didn't give them what they wanted? I'm not so sure.
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 10:26 (Ref:3157919)   #8
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I wonder what role having achieved a victory in the past plays when it comes to planning a return?

On the one hand you have the history and prestige to tap into for marketing and PR, but having won it if you come back people will expect you to do it again. Plus the additional pressure that comes with being French in the case of Renault.

I'd hope they don't feel in 2012 like they've proven their point in endurance racing via the exploits of the late 70's.
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 10:33 (Ref:3157922)   #9
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The first team and name that sprung to mind is Pescarolo for me. I still have a feeling that Pescarolo isn't dead.

If my number's come up, the first thing I'd do is become an investor of Pescarolo.

Someone said Alfa Romeo and I think this is a good point. Despite many genuine attempts in terms of design and assembly to improve their reputation of unreliablity, Alfa just can't shake it off that reputation. Surely a Le Mans 24 hours win would be massive for them. Especially if they beat Audi, with whom they compete with their saloons and smaller cars...and Porsche, with whom they compete at the top of their range!

Wishful thinking there though, I don't think Alfa has the money to do it. Also, the thinking in Milan seems to be "sod the reputation, let's just make sportscars again".
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 10:54 (Ref:3157931)   #10
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Eddie Irvine said it was unfinished business , but I cant see him returning now .

Nissan obviously ..... Toyota , but their tryin .

Be great to see Ferrari , Maseratti or Lancia make a return ..... but sadly it wont be with a V12 with the rules as they are .
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 10:55 (Ref:3157932)   #11
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The first team and name that sprung to mind is Pescarolo for me. I still have a feeling that Pescarolo isn't dead.

If my number's come up, the first thing I'd do is become an investor of Pescarolo.

Someone said Alfa Romeo and I think this is a good point. Despite many genuine attempts in terms of design and assembly to improve their reputation of unreliablity, Alfa just can't shake it off that reputation. Surely a Le Mans 24 hours win would be massive for them. Especially if they beat Audi, with whom they compete with their saloons and smaller cars...and Porsche, with whom they compete at the top of their range!

Wishful thinking there though, I don't think Alfa has the money to do it. Also, the thinking in Milan seems to be "sod the reputation, let's just make sportscars again".
Alfa Romeo certainly have unfinished business. Contriving to stumble at just about every possible juncture in the early 1970s despite some superb driving talent, and some flashes of real promise at the dawn of the 3.0 era, combined with the stillborn 3.5 Group C car present a pretty powerful case.
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 12:28 (Ref:3157960)   #12
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Pilgrimage should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One word - Mercedes (although briefly mentioned above).
Two words - Hugh Chamberlain!
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 13:11 (Ref:3157984)   #13
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Intriguing, I'd almost classify Renault as a classic case of job done.

They came in with a clear objective (i.e. "win"), ramped up to the point where they did it, and then closed the programme down and went off to F1.

Clearly it's a long time ago, and I utterly agree that they'd massively benefit from being there, but is there a niggle in Viry Chatillon that Le Mans didn't give them what they wanted? I'm not so sure.
Yes but Renault are intrinsically linked with them having a factory in Le Mans and being French that it seems natural they should be there - perhaps with a new Alpine on the way a GT version may be a real possibility. Sadly it seems the German manufacturers are the only European ones that are doing well at the moment so there is unlikely to be a budget from any others - except Ferrari - who could probably find enough sponsorship to fund the whole thing

Others to consider:

Chrysler
Cadillac
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 18:27 (Ref:3158141)   #14
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One word - Mercedes (although briefly mentioned above).
Altough they did get it done + totally dominated WSC for two seasons?
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 18:33 (Ref:3158144)   #15
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Would really just be nice to see them back at the race in any capacity. Given they haven't set foot in the place since '99.

Despite winning the race twice, with everything else that's gone on you can't say the race has been kind to them.
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 19:10 (Ref:3158166)   #16
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Bringing things into the realm of the possible, Yves Courage should have won in 1995, in providing the Pescarolo C60H's DNA should have done so again in 2005, seeing something come back together for him for a run in 2015 would be highly welcome.
I believe he is a big part of the Garage 56, next year .

A marque i'm surprised nobody has mentioned is Aston Martin.
I can think of 3 top class "era's" of their Le Mans anticipation, and very much like Mercedes, only 1 victory has been produced, and too many near misses and failures. (This is overall victory only of course).

Peugeot, I still feel has unfinished business at Le Mans. They got the job done in the 90's but the quick closure of the program says to me there must still be Le Mans dreams in the company!
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Old 26 Oct 2012, 23:52 (Ref:3158274)   #17
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Maybe echoing Ginger's point in a way, Peugeot should feel monumentally aggrieved that there isn't a good documentary record of their win - I can't bring myself to sit through the 2009 video and surely they should feel they need to have a "Truth in 24" like story told about them - perhaps a Luc Besson effort in the style of Michel Vaillant?
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Old 27 Oct 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3158498)   #18
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Might be nice to see Lamborghini begin some business at Le Mans at some point.

They've not achieved enough to call anything unfinished. Perhaps the new GT regs going forward will allow them to come back with Reiter and a decent effort.
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Old 27 Oct 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3158500)   #19
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Ferrari also got unfinished overall-victory business at Le Mans, in the way, that they used to be such an essential piece at Le Mans.
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Old 27 Oct 2012, 14:31 (Ref:3158504)   #20
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Ferrari also got unfinished overall-victory business at Le Mans, in the way, that they used to be such an essential piece at Le Mans.
Maybe they could pull something together for 2015 - 50 years since their last victory at the race. Would be a dream to see them back.

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Old 27 Oct 2012, 14:42 (Ref:3158511)   #21
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Would love to see Ferrari/ Alfa-Romeo back at Le Mans, but it's not likely while Di Montezelemo is the boss. No programmes in any major series apart from F1. So no WEC, WTCC, DTM, WRC, etc which I think is a mistake.

And as a Rallyfan, I'd like to see Loeb win there, Sportscars should be his future, not sleep inducing WTCC cars.
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Old 27 Oct 2012, 23:08 (Ref:3158712)   #22
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Ford.
Brundle.
Toyota.
Ferrari.
Lots of Peugeot drivers, for various reasons.
Porsche.
BENTLEY!

Enough to be going on with?
Oh of course not....
Dunlop.

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Old 28 Oct 2012, 06:58 (Ref:3158840)   #23
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Panoz springs to mind also.

The big one for me is Toyota, there was so much money and resources poured into the GT-One programme and yet nothing.
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Old 28 Oct 2012, 07:25 (Ref:3158847)   #24
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Ford.
Brundle.
Toyota.
Ferrari.
Lots of Peugeot drivers, for various reasons.
Porsche.
BENTLEY!

Enough to be going on with?
Oh of course not....
Dunlop.
I don't see why Ford and Bentley is unfinished business Tim.
They've gotten the wins they wanted when they had full programs .

But i'll add Nissan to the list. They've had several hits at Le Mans, but no Champagne yet!
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Old 28 Oct 2012, 10:43 (Ref:3158938)   #25
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But i'll add Nissan to the list. They've had several hits at Le Mans, but no Champagne yet!
Yep, best result of third for these guys back in 1998. Suzuki/Hoshino/Kageyama.



Would LOVE to see them back but not sure I can see it. Even a P1 engine would be better than nothing.
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