Duty of care

Langers · 7 Oct 2018, 08:37 (Ref:3855109)

Enough is enough with teams leaving drivers out in cars when they are clearly in no fit state to do so. Even though the commentators didn’t say anything, it was obvious that Reynolds had a speed problem and was losing rapidly to Lowndes. This should have prompted questions. Then when he revealed the leg cramps and was unable to make a clear decision / give clear direction as to whether to stay in the car or not, it was again clear that the team should have put in Youlden. Even without the benefit of hindsight, it would have been the safer move.

Instead, they left a driver out too long, he made a mistake in the pit stop and a top 5 result turned to top 15.

Someone also needs to take responsibility for what was clearly too hectic a schedule during the week for Reynolds to handle. Right at the very start of the race when he said he was running on 5 hours sleep or less for successive days, alarm bells immediately rang for me. You just can’t perform at your best on such a sleep deficit.

This is not the first time a team has failed to act. I remember Slade a few years ago being absolutely cooked.

Was also concerned to hear remarks from Lowndes and Premat that neither the 17 or 888 were running driver cooking gear, presumably to save weight.

The size of the drink bottles in the cars is pathetic compared to the amount of fluid drivers would lose in 3 stints. Again, putting car performance ahead of driver health and safety.

Something has to change. Drivers can’t make the right decisions themselves when they are completely cooked.

Mixer · 7 Oct 2018, 08:54 (Ref:3855113)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers

Enough is enough with teams leaving drivers out in cars when they are clearly in no fit state to do so. Even though the commentators didn’t say anything, it was obvious that Reynolds had a speed problem and was losing rapidly to Lowndes. This should have prompted questions. Then when he revealed the leg cramps and was unable to make a clear decision / give clear direction as to whether to stay in the car or not, it was again clear that the team should have put in Youlden. Even without the benefit of hindsight, it would have been the safer move.

Forget anything else about the commitments and so on, purely looking at the race management, the minute he said he wasn't sure they should have pulled him immediately from the car.

I am not a sports scientist but from my long distance running experience, you cannot get glucose or electrolytes into muscles in less than about 30 minutes, I am gobsmacked that the team expert let him stay in the car in that condition.

Forda · 7 Oct 2018, 09:02 (Ref:3855117)

Here's Betty's take:

“David’s kicking himself. He knows what he did was wrong.

“A champion’s red mist came over him. He thought he could get home because he wanted so badly to win again.”

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motors...998c4dc22c9a7f

Kingair · 7 Oct 2018, 09:08 (Ref:3855122)

I thought the team manager would have made the call.

They were like old moles at a christening, FFS the car was going to be in the wall if Dave kept going.

Mark Skaife called it as fatigue, and what if Dave collapsed at the wheel, passed out down Conrod straight or starting vomiting and choked on it?

mtpanorama · 7 Oct 2018, 09:13 (Ref:3855124)

Maybe it is time to look at allowable driving time.

Forda · 7 Oct 2018, 09:22 (Ref:3855127)

The interesting thing was sleep deprivation being mentioned.

It's not always easy to sleep in a different place to your usual abode, then to have that combined with nervous anticipation and performance expectations.
Surely other drivers would have experienced similar, yet this has never really been brought up before.

The team should have perhaps been working on resolving that issue much earlier in the week.

Tourer · 7 Oct 2018, 09:23 (Ref:3855128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

Maybe it is time to look at allowable driving time.

There’s been regulations on that for years (2.5 hours max).

I must say that as it was happening I felt that the team should be pulling him in. There was a perfectly fit co-driver in the garage who could have jumped in. It would probably have cost the race but they all work together all year & the team guys must have known by his voice, ramblings & cramping that he was in real trouble.

Kingair · 7 Oct 2018, 09:26 (Ref:3855129)

Good point Forda, perhaps the teams need to manage fatigue by cutting down on the PR stuff.

Lack of sleep over a few days is the equivalent of driving with a blood alcohol level of .08.

mtpanorama · 7 Oct 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3855131)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

There’s been regulations on that for years (2.5 hours max).

I must say that as it was happening I felt that the team should be pulling him in. There was a perfectly fit co-driver in the garage who could have jumped in. It would probably have cost the race but they all work together all year & the team guys must have known by his voice, ramblings & cramping that he was in real trouble.

I know that there is a maximum.
Maybe I should have phrased it better and said they need to look at changing the allowable time limit .

Gaz170 · 7 Oct 2018, 09:37 (Ref:3855133)

I can't see the value of triple stinting the main driver at the end. There was always risk that a driver would fatigue.
The whole concept of getting the co-drivers laps done as early as possible is ridiculous.

Tourer · 7 Oct 2018, 09:41 (Ref:3855136)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

I know that there is a maximum.
Maybe I should have phrased it better and said they need to look at changing the allowable time limit .

Quite possibly although in this case (as far as we know) the other drivers were all feeling it but coped OK.

I suspect that Davey's issues stemmed from a big week and he just started the race with not enough in his personal tank. I'm not going to beat the team up over it (fatigue does tend to go hand in hand with motor sport) but no doubt the team and Davey will have learned some lessons from this week.

Good starting point would be to take medical advice as to why he wasn't sleeping well and come up with a solution.

Razor · 7 Oct 2018, 13:22 (Ref:3855195)

The main issue was that Deadpool (an in-joke between Dave Reynolds and myself) was practically not himself all week. (had trouble sleeping, said all week that he felt off song, etc) Plus the team should have over-ruled Reynolds' wanting to stay in the car and put Youlden in the car during the scheduled pitstop. (It was clear in the in-car footage that Deadpool was stuffed, he was constantly drooping/shutting his eyelids, looked pale as and when he jumped out of the car, not only his legs were cramped, his hands were clawed with severe cramp)

Also, props for Greg Murphy consoling Reynolds. Like him or not, that was a great thing he did, unlike the bunch of photographers that stuck their cameras practically in Reynolds' face. That really annoyed me. (and the team who practically used themselves as human shields to give Deadpool some privacy)

Langers · 7 Oct 2018, 18:19 (Ref:3855269)

I think he should have gone straight out the back into the truck onto a drip and have some privacy. He wasn’t in a state to be in front of a camera (TV or otherwise)

Jam3s · 7 Oct 2018, 23:21 (Ref:3855304)

Imo the root issue in this is Reynolds anxiety issue which has become quite clear now. A pack of sleep as a result of anxiety has a far greater impact on someone's mental and physical performance than simply reduced sleep due to a later finish or eaely start. Hopefully he can work in that area but there's the fear now that it'll exacerbate after this weekend.

Mixer · 7 Oct 2018, 23:46 (Ref:3855305)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

The main issue was that Deadpool (an in-joke between Dave Reynolds and myself) was practically not himself all week. (had trouble sleeping, said all week that he felt off song, etc) Plus the team should have over-ruled Reynolds' wanting to stay in the car and put Youlden in the car during the scheduled pitstop. (It was clear in the in-car footage that Deadpool was stuffed, he was constantly drooping/shutting his eyelids, looked pale as and when he jumped out of the car, not only his legs were cramped, his hands were clawed with severe cramp)

Makes the decision to triple-stint him in such a fast race very questionable. Youlden didn't put a foot wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Also, props for Greg Murphy consoling Reynolds. Like him or not, that was a great thing he did, unlike the bunch of photographers that stuck their cameras practically in Reynolds' face. That really annoyed me. (and the team who practically used themselves as human shields to give Deadpool some privacy)

Man absolutely, those photographers really ****ed me off.

Murph was great. Poor Dave looked absolutely shell shocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam3s

Imo the root issue in this is Reynolds anxiety issue which has become quite clear now. A pack of sleep as a result of anxiety has a far greater impact on someone's mental and physical performance than simply reduced sleep due to a later finish or eaely start. Hopefully he can work in that area but there's the fear now that it'll exacerbate after this weekend.

As a sufferer myself I really feel the pain and it is a serious issue that can affect you physically very badly.