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Old 18 Aug 2020, 07:10 (Ref:3996140)   #16
crmalcolm
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
I think that the "start on the same tyre you qualify on" approach came in prior to the current parc ferme rules (but happy to be corrected if I'm mis-remembering). With the parc ferme rules now in play, there's probably less of a need to start on the same tyres IMHO.
From the start of the Pirelli supply, the initial years were based on teams returning sets of tyres after sessions were completed. This was also the first time that teams had to start the race on used tyres. The top ten qualifiers had to use the tyres from Q3 that they had set their fastest lap on.
The next few seasons saw every top ten qualifier typically start on the softest compound - race to 1/4 distance then stick on the harder compound.

This was modified in 2014 to make Q3 drivers use their fastest set from Q2 to start the race. The result of this was that some teams didn't bother running in Q3 because they would be using a set of tyres for no real benefit.

2016 saw the range of compounds at an event increase from two to three.
Pirelli nominated two mandatory sets of tyres for each car during the race, with a third set of the softest compound, that teams had to use in Q3. Teams had free choice over use of the other ten sets available to them, but had to return sets at certain points:
- One set after the first 40 minutes of FP1
- One set at the end of FP1
- Two sets at the end of FP2
- Two sets at the end of FP3

The two mandatory sets nominated by Pirelli cannot be given back during practice and must be available for use in the race. At least one of these two sets must be used during the race - but the teams can decide which one.


Drivers who did not make it to Q3 were able to use the super-softs that had been allocated for Q3 during the race.
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 10:33 (Ref:3996172)   #17
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
Nope - nothing to stop him getting a cut of the action earlier.
How was he going to get a cut from individual contract between team and supplier? Everything done in that era had a single goal, get more money for BE and CVC. Call me cynical but BE did not become wealthy by not doing deals but by putting his hand out at every opportunity.

Let them choose their own supplier and give the series some unpredictability.
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 10:43 (Ref:3996175)   #18
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Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan View Post
Chewing gum soft qually tyres
honestly think this would make a huge difference. everyone on the same page, let 'em at it. but then i quite like the idea of two races and two quali sessions per weekend a la formula renault - one shot quali in the morning, race in the afternoon, same format saturday and sunday.

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There is a single tyre supplier because other tyre suppliers specifically walked away, saying that the development costs made it too expensive compared to the benefits.
this is why there's currently only two candidates for the job - pirelli and hankook. nobody else could afford it. hankook have been developing the relevant tyres for f1 but in the series they have the rights to currently, their reputation isn't fantastic in terms of product support.
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 10:46 (Ref:3996176)   #19
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A decision was made by the FIA to move to a single tyre supplier in order to to stop the escalating costs incurred by the tyre manufacturers in order to be competitive. Since it was introduced, the contract to supply has always gone out to tender, and so far, only Pirelli has both met the criteria and agreed to manufacture and supply the tyres to the teams.

And they do so now on a strictly commercial basis, and charge each team for the supply of tyres, unlike previously when some teams received their supply for free or were paid fees to test the tyres. Which led, for example, to Ferrari pounding around their circuits on an almost daily basis in a development race to produce better rubber.

As far as I am aware, Mr E was never directly involved (if at all) in the tyre contract negotiations; they were strictly between the FIA and the tyre manufacturers.
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 11:31 (Ref:3996185)   #20
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To be fair, a tyre war would be less expensive now due to the lack of in season testing. You donít see them pounding round the circuits in the weeks between races anymore. Of course there are risks with tyre wars, but it would definitely spice things up. Hill in an Arrows at Hungary springs to mind of what can happen
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Old 20 Aug 2020, 14:50 (Ref:3996679)   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
A decision was made by the FIA to move to a single tyre supplier in order to to stop the escalating costs incurred by the tyre manufacturers in order to be competitive. Since it was introduced, the contract to supply has always gone out to tender, and so far, only Pirelli has both met the criteria and agreed to manufacture and supply the tyres to the teams.

And they do so now on a strictly commercial basis, and charge each team for the supply of tyres, unlike previously when some teams received their supply for free or were paid fees to test the tyres. Which led, for example, to Ferrari pounding around their circuits on an almost daily basis in a development race to produce better rubber.

As far as I am aware, Mr E was never directly involved (if at all) in the tyre contract negotiations; they were strictly between the FIA and the tyre manufacturers.
I think that going for a single manufacturer is a pretty good idea as long as Pirelli doesn't use this position to price gouge and inflate the prices artificially; it'll provide all vehicles with similar performances, and that allows the races to be decided by 1) the technical prowess of the engineers making the cars and 2) the pilot's skills.
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Old 24 Aug 2020, 09:17 (Ref:3997570)   #22
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Iím sure price isnít a problem when it comes to Pirelli, I havenít heard anything to say they are overcharging.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 05:33 (Ref:3997763)   #23
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Originally Posted by Tanker62M View Post
I think that going for a single manufacturer is a pretty good idea as long as Pirelli doesn't use this position to price gouge and inflate the prices artificially; it'll provide all vehicles with similar performances, and that allows the races to be decided by 1) the technical prowess of the engineers making the cars and 2) the pilot's skills.

Chassis and engine too?
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 10:22 (Ref:3997808)   #24
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Yeah, that's the problem, where do you draw the line? Obviously a standard ECU won't make too much difference, but if everyone had the same engine, it wouldn't be the same. So from that I don't see a problem having different tyre manufacturers
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 19:09 (Ref:3997924)   #25
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Yeah, that's the problem, where do you draw the line? Obviously a standard ECU won't make too much difference, but if everyone had the same engine, it wouldn't be the same. So from that I don't see a problem having different tyre manufacturers

In the 1970's there were years when there were effectively only 2 engines Ferrari and Cosworth DFVs. I know there were a few others in the early 70's such as BRM but it was only in the latter part of the decade when a few others won a few GP's like Renault, Alfa and Matra.
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 09:11 (Ref:3998007)   #26
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True, it was a lot simpler when a team could just buy a Cosworth DFV, Goodyear tyres and Hewland gearbox. That certainly was low cost F1 with a difference
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 10:38 (Ref:3998038)   #27
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
True, it was a lot simpler when a team could just buy a Cosworth DFV, Goodyear tyres and Hewland gearbox. That certainly was low cost F1 with a difference
Not to mention a March rolling chassis.
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3998045)   #28
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Iím sure price isnít a problem when it comes to Pirelli, I havenít heard anything to say they are overcharging.
In many ways the price is set by how much the FIA etc. charge them for the privilege of supplying tyres. Thatís many millions.
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 11:20 (Ref:3998047)   #29
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In many ways the price is set by how much the FIA etc. charge them for the privilege of supplying tyres. Thatís many millions.

I can assure you that if the FIA was demanding a fee from the tyre manufacturers to supply their rubber that none of the suppliers would bother to tender for the contracts.

From what I understand, Pirelli charge the teams so that they can cover the cost of manufacturing the tyres (which also covers the small amount of testing that is allowed) and for transporting the tyres and supporting the teams during the year.
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Old 26 Aug 2020, 11:51 (Ref:3998052)   #30
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I can assure you that if the FIA was demanding a fee from the tyre manufacturers to supply their rubber that none of the suppliers would bother to tender for the contracts.

From what I understand, Pirelli charge the teams so that they can cover the cost of manufacturing the tyres (which also covers the small amount of testing that is allowed) and for transporting the tyres and supporting the teams during the year.
Then, with respect, what you understand is completely wrong.

In decades in motorsport I have never heard of a control tyre supplier not paying the promoter!

You think the promoter just gives away the right to be seen as supplier to the world’s top racing series and be seen as such all over the planet. Would be rather naive.

When they tender for the contract, this is the FIRST thing looked for. How much will they pay us for the commercial benefits.

Imagine if you could supply F1 tyres and just charge your costs to the teams. Every single tyre company that ever existed would be tendering!
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