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Old 7 Sep 2020, 14:12 (Ref:4000765)   #316
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Originally Posted by Aysedasi View Post
The end is clearly nigh....
Poor old Lew's eyesight is going and Bottas has old timers!
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Old 12 Sep 2020, 09:42 (Ref:4001825)   #317
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Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
Wasnít trying to say that at all

I was simply putting my opinion forward that I thought the Austria situation in 2002 was far worse than Russia in 2018.

I brought into Hungary to show that Hamilton is capable of being a team player and handing places back too
Yep.

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Originally Posted by ascarracinguk View Post
This was all in response to BJs comment that Bottas may not have been allowed to win at the weekend....and brought up Russia as an example that Mercedes have imposed team orders...

....Russia in 2018 when Bottas was out of the championship is hardly comparable to 2002 Austria
Yep. Team orders is obviously a weird, grey area.

Bottas was out of the championship race, but Vettel was almost out of it as well. To justify team orders as blatant as that over a lightest of threats to a title win was pretty lame. Whatever there was to gain wasn't worth what was lost, and I think they should've erred the other way.

Bottas gets diminished for not winning a race that year and being so compliant to team orders, and Hamilton/MB's success is blotted.

I'd be more comfortable with any partiality MB are trying to project if I saw Bottas winning, or threatening to beat Hamilton due to alternate pit strategies while trailing Hamilton. I've never seen that, but I have seen the other way.
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Old 12 Sep 2020, 10:01 (Ref:4001832)   #318
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
didnt Bottas have an issue at that same final corner a lap or two later?

forgetting about prior seasons, we have seen LH make more of his tires then Bottas this year...what would indicate that LH coulndt likewise do more with an overstressed engine then Bottas?

already we have seen LH ask to do more with a potentially suspect merc engine (wiring issues early on this season) and do more with dying tires. heck LH may even be faster then VB on 3 wheels.

again each their own, but i think if both had more beef (great way to describe it btw), LH, maybe just by virtue of having more experience, is the safer pair of hands to bring the car home.



'setup' didnt stop Leclerc from surpassing his world titled team mate who had been at the team longer and also presumably had far more input in their cars design and set up. overcoming those issues is what top level talent is supposed to do.

anyways, i think the setup argument is mainly used to prop up the 2nd driver.

moot point anyways as i dont think i have ever heard setup being the reason Bottas is slower.



falling short of a driver who has 89 wins is not diminishing Bottas imo and his contract is relatively minor compared to LH because the more talented athlete is typically the one who gets paid more.

is he there because he is reliable and knows how to play 2nd fiddle...probably but im not sure any would pick Bottas to be a lead driver over Max or Leclerc either. or if we could pick any team mate for LH while being assured that team mate could challenge LH openly would Bottas be the first choice?



not directed at you but a general observation, but much like the schumi years, there is this narrative (as seen by the still ongoing team orders greatest hits debate) that the dominating team somehow and for some inexplicable reason picked the less talented driver to lead their team.

without Schumi or Ham, their team mates would most likely not have had the dominating car in the first place.

Barri got beaten by Button and Bottas, who by virtue of being younger, will more likely have other future team mates for us to compare against. time will tell if he has been underrated or shortchanged.
I wasn't talking about set up. I was talking about hardware of the car that you can't easily change (or at all). That would contribute to Bottas chewing his tyres up all the time.

I'd make a statement by saying that MB (car and team) is designed around Hamilton winning and Bottas running 2nd. With a 1-2 in that order, MB are satisfied and move onto the next race.

If a 1-2 occurred the other way. MB might still be satisfied, but I presume would enquire as to why Hamilton didn't win, when they wouldn't in the scenario above.

I don't think MB go into races intending to give Bottas 100% support to win.
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Old 12 Sep 2020, 10:20 (Ref:4001835)   #319
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I'm sure you're right. And I'd go so far as to venture, 'Why would they want it any other way?' They saw what happens when someone is able to raise their game and challenge Hamilton (Rosberg at his peak), so why would they want that to happen again?
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Old 12 Sep 2020, 23:52 (Ref:4002027)   #320
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The suggestion is that Mercedes are about to sell a 70% share in the team for a truly obscene amount of money, however the source is definitely questionable.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.d...e-F1-team.html
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Old 13 Sep 2020, 00:30 (Ref:4002035)   #321
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Ahhhhhh, you made me click on a Daily Mail link.
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Old 13 Sep 2020, 17:14 (Ref:4002232)   #322
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Ahhhhhh, you made me click on a Daily Mail link.
The Daily Mail banging on about German car manufacturers?
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Old 13 Sep 2020, 19:57 (Ref:4002279)   #323
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Looks like the end is not nigh after all.....
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 11:09 (Ref:4002568)   #324
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Toto stringently denying any rumoured buyout.

But he would though wouldn't he?
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 11:52 (Ref:4002581)   #325
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According to this, Toto Wolff is quitting as Team Principal and moving to the teamís supervisory board.

https://f1-insider.com/en/formula1/m...eam-principal/
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 12:04 (Ref:4002584)   #326
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According to this, Toto Wolff is quitting as Team Principal and moving to the teamís supervisory board.

https://f1-insider.com/en/formula1/m...eam-principal/
Although it is a few months ago, much of this makes sense doesn't it?

There would have to be an immense amount of manoeuvring in the background and maintaining the confidence of a lot of staff, in both teams.
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