[BTCC] BTCC News & Rumours 2025

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Dudley

If there aren't enough inexperienced drivers to make it worthwhile then the problem there is your championship is unhealthy and the solution is to fix the barriers to entry

Conversely, if there aren't enough inexperienced drivers then the championship could be seen as very healthy indeed - stable, well financed, with entrants and drivers who are in it for the long haul.

If a championship such as the BTCC ended up with (say) two thirds of the field bringing in inexperienced drivers/rookies every season whilst not being able or prepared to hold on to those drivers who already have the experience, then that's a sign of a championship in trouble.

And we all know what the major barrier to entry is for the BTCC - the development and running costs. Mr Gow, and by relation TOCA, have got their work cut out to avoid another implosion like the Super Touring era.

[Dudley]

Fair point.

But yeah, we're certainly risking that implosion, some would say TCR UK is experiencing it. The BTCC looks healthy but all you need is to lose Alliance or Excelr8 one winter and it suddenly looks very different. The danger of big teams,

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Dudley

If a "Promising newcomer" competition is open to established race winners, do you really think that makes it a worthwhile competition?

It's only been "Promising newcomer" for 3 of the 12 seasons it has been competed for.

It started out as best S2000 finisher, then most places gained during the season.

In recent years (and for 2025), the length of time in the BTCC has no relation on whether you are eligible.
Since 2015, and still for 2025, 'established race winners' are not eligible.

[MarcusH26]

Will be interesting to see what the new regs end up looking like. I'm assuming evolution not revolution if Alliance have new cars and a new partner for next year. Hopefully budgets will get a bit more sensible too.

[Protonman]

Just listening for the first time to the interview with Josh Cook. Very upbeat and emphasising the long term outlook rather than a short term relief of simply being on the grid for another year in whatever car was spare . His tone suggested to me that he may be stopping at Toyota but with a new package to relish . Given that TGR are staying quiet at present maybe interesting should the team make any announcement . Maybe a change of chassis , the Corolla hasn’t really done it thus far . Didnt really suggest he would be at One or if it did their were very exiting plans afoot, much more so than bolting together a redundant car for the sake of it. He also has his mind on overall honours and realistically you need to be in a big team to do that . All quite exiting . Interesting that he expressed delight at the new regs and loss of hybrid , indicating he would suit him better as a driver but maybe help the team as well.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If the eligible drivers total was only 3, do you really think that makes it a worthwhile competition?

Yes, because you only two for a competition. We’ve seen it other minor categories within a category. Don’t know why this should be any different

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, because you only two for a competition. We’ve seen it other minor categories within a category. Don’t know why this should be any different

What? Like Chess?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, because you only two for a competition. We’ve seen it other minor categories within a category. Don’t know why this should be any different

Can you imagine trying to justify a JST title as a significant achievement if you only had two other drivers eligible. One of them missed 3 rounds and the other suffered 6x DNFs?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Can you imagine trying to justify a JST title as a significant achievement if you only had two other drivers eligible. One of them missed 3 rounds and the other suffered 6x DNFs?

Well it’s not the main championship, so does it really matter? I just feel they are making unnecessary changes.

It’s no different than rookie championships in other series, which is what JST originally started as

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It’s no different than rookie championships in other series, which is what JST originally started as

JST didn't start as a rookie championship. It was for the best performing S2000 initially, then for the most places gained.
It was only for best rookie for 3 seasons after that.

If it was a rookie title in 2025, then (as it currently stands) the winner is already determined with just one rookie on the grid.
With the regulations that are confirmed for 2025, we already have 3 drivers eligible with more to come.

[TinTopGrumpy]

Anyone else watch the On The Limit Prologue this morning? They're following all the drivers rather than just three.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy

Anyone else watch the On The Limit Prologue this morning? They're following all the drivers rather than just three.

On the KwikFit YouTube channel for those like me who couldn’t find it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn8tf4UzJpc

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Can you imagine trying to justify a JST title as a significant achievement if you only had two other drivers eligible. One of them missed 3 rounds and the other suffered 6x DNFs?

Ok but how winning with other least-accomplished drivers in the field is a significant achievement? It's not at all especially as - in theory - you can be a Jack Sears Trophy winner with very unremarkable overall results. I get this (as well as Independents) is nowadays mostly for marketing purposes but both titles are now meaningless and it sounds a bit silly when people make a big achievement out of winning these two categories. What does being the 'Independent champion' even mean?

Having a 'rookie of the year' award makes a lot more sense but yes, it would oftentimes mean many seasons wouldn't have almost any competition at all. Wonder how it is in America where both NASCAR and IndyCar run an annual rookie of the year contest - do they always have enough of rookies in the field?
And even when Jacks Sears was for S2000 cars it made a lot more sense because at least there was a reasonable distinction for competitors in this category since they were racing in different cars. Now neither JST nor Independents make sense to me since everyone is independent and it's a given that in a series there'll be drivers with different level of achievements and it makes no sense to create a special category for the least successful ones.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Evantra

On the KwikFit YouTube channel for those like me who couldn’t find it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn8tf4UzJpc

I was 10 mins in when I realised it was last years

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Ok but how winning with other least-accomplished drivers in the field is a significant achievement? It's not at all especially as - in theory - you can be a Jack Sears Trophy winner with very unremarkable overall results. I get this (as well as Independents) is nowadays mostly for marketing purposes but both titles are now meaningless and it sounds a bit silly when people make a big achievement out of winning these two categories. What does being the 'Independent champion' even mean?

Having a 'rookie of the year' award makes a lot more sense but yes, it would oftentimes mean many seasons wouldn't have almost any competition at all. Wonder how it is in America where both NASCAR and IndyCar run an annual rookie of the year contest - do they always have enough of rookies in the field?
And even when Jacks Sears was for S2000 cars it made a lot more sense because at least there was a reasonable distinction for competitors in this category since they were racing in different cars. Now neither JST nor Independents make sense to me since everyone is independent and it's a given that in a series there'll be drivers with different level of achievements and it makes no sense to create a special category for the least successful ones.

For me, the JST makes sense because it is open to drivers who haven't achieved a certain level of results yet. That doesn't mean they are not a driver capable of those results (just look at the list of previous winners) but that they might not have been in the right package. As a way to promote themselves, and as a platform to market sponsors, it fits well with how BTCC is structured today.

[Craner Curves]

Exactly. You can twist it to suit the narrative for your sponsors. I remember helping edit a press release for one of the production class teams, where the car kept blowing engines constantly, but we made it sound like it was doing worthwhile development work! And no it wasn't Hyla Breese.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

For me, the JST makes sense because it is open to drivers who haven't achieved a certain level of results yet. That doesn't mean they are not a driver capable of those results (just look at the list of previous winners) but that they might not have been in the right package. As a way to promote themselves, and as a platform to market sponsors, it fits well with how BTCC is structured today.

Well, that's right and this is why this is a strong point for marketing purposes and no denying that there are drivers well capable of being great drivers who are in the JST field at some point of their careers. Yet I can't see JST making much sense from the competition point of view especially as the criteria get loosened. Perhaps a slightly better idea would be to make it something of a 'Rising Star award' and put there drivers who are yet to win a race but limit the eligibility criteria to a certain number of races the drivers should've completed to be eligible. So once a driver who failed to win a race within, say, 4 seasons (120 races) they can no longer fight for JST, for instance. Then it would be easier to promote it as a sort of achievement for young (well, safer to say relatively inexperienced) drivers aiming to become BTCC stars in the future. But that's just a loose thought.

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I was 10 mins in when I realised it was last years

The series is new but, as with the previous four, it covers the previous season before the new one starts.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I was 10 mins in when I realised it was last years

Still waiting for the behind-the-scenes documentary to predict the future, I see...

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I was 10 mins in when I realised it was last years

You didn't get it after 27 seconds when Adam Morgan walked in wearing full WSR BMW gear?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

You didn't get it after 27 seconds when Adam Morgan walked in wearing full WSR BMW gear?

No...I know....