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Old 22 Jun 2015, 00:52 (Ref:3552872)   #1
FAS33
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What is wrong with Redbull?

The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 08:33 (Ref:3552933)   #2
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The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
Simple - put a Renault hybrid in it. If that car had a Mercedes or Ferrari engine it'd be fine.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 08:39 (Ref:3552935)   #3
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I think the chassis/aero isn't as good/so much better than everyone else, as what it used to be either, so they can't make up for their lack of engine power by that alone anymore. Also they don't have a very experienced driver pairing. Back in their early winning days Mark Webber provided most of their development feedback.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 09:32 (Ref:3552961)   #4
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Simple - put a Renault hybrid in it. If that car had a Mercedes or Ferrari engine it'd be fine.
can be all Renaults fault tho.....lets face it Minardi aren't doing so bad on much less a budget than its sister team
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 09:39 (Ref:3552965)   #5
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The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
Their best driver left, and then the best engineer left, and then the engines became terrible. Lots of factors.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 11:52 (Ref:3552997)   #6
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Renault.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 13:27 (Ref:3553022)   #7
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can be all Renaults fault tho.....lets face it Minardi aren't doing so bad on much less a budget than its sister team
Totally agree.

Mr Ricciardo hasnt lost his bottle either, overtaking a number of cars in Austria yesterday with full strength & grace, despite his slow car.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 15:27 (Ref:3553070)   #8
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Praise Ricciardo all you like, Kvyat is a match for him. It isn't just Renault either. The STR cars are faster in the wet (as are the drivers!) and a match, if not faster, on some circuits. A Sauber driven by a Formula 1 debutant beat them in Australia. The car is not worthy of victories. The drivers have done nothing too special this season - Kyvat at Monaco aside. Verstappen was just faster in Austria. Red Bull can't be saying anything like they'd be winning races and fighting for the title, or at least justifiably say it!
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 21:00 (Ref:3553150)   #9
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The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
It's F1 no one continues to win forever ..
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 21:15 (Ref:3553157)   #10
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cerdic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is the nature of F1. Always has been. Teams rise and fall, and rise again.

Part of the skill of the top drivers has always been to second guess who is going to have the fastest car and get themselves a seat in it! Look at the careers of Fangio, Moss, Lauda, Prost, Senna, and now Hamilton and Vettel....
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 22:01 (Ref:3553170)   #11
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Newey left and they now can't design a car. Renault got the hump on being shaded on the branding stakes by the Red Bull brand itself and just lost interest. DM is now busy having a melt down and learning some home truths as things go south. That's about the sum of it.
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Old 22 Jun 2015, 22:08 (Ref:3553171)   #12
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The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
Brabham went -- in the space of less than 10 years - from being a World Championship winning team to a single car skeleton team fielding pay drivers wandering around in 16th many laps behind if they qualified at all.

That's certainly isn't Mclaren's situation by any stretch - but I just thought I take this opportunity to mention another of Bernie's victims of his exploitation and abuse.
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Old 24 Jun 2015, 01:06 (Ref:3553498)   #13
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Renault got the hump on being shaded on the branding stakes by the Red Bull brand itself and just lost interest.
Idiot author of the year for that one. Are you seriously saying that Renault have sabotaged RB's chances in a deliberate manner as well as their own reputation?
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Old 24 Jun 2015, 02:46 (Ref:3553511)   #14
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Idiot author of the year for that one. Are you seriously saying that Renault have sabotaged RB's chances in a deliberate manner as well as their own reputation?
No, I haven't, you clown. Read my post again and reply in a dignified manner.
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Old 24 Jun 2015, 13:15 (Ref:3553601)   #15
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The drink is bad enough, but how do you go from multiple championship winning team to mid pack team in a space of 2 years? Give my driver something to win with at least..
How about a Jäger Bomb?
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Old 24 Jun 2015, 14:38 (Ref:3553613)   #16
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How about a Jäger Bomb?
thats a good one.

tried a vodka mixed with RB Yellow the other night. a bit on the sweet side but pretty darn tasty imo.
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Old 24 Jun 2015, 17:58 (Ref:3553667)   #17
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Idiot author of the year for that one. Are you seriously saying that Renault have sabotaged RB's chances in a deliberate manner as well as their own reputation?
This is not how we talk with each other in this forum ..
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Old 30 Jun 2015, 00:16 (Ref:3554807)   #18
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How about a Jäger Bomb?
lol hell yes
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Old 30 Jun 2015, 14:46 (Ref:3554911)   #19
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I'm making a post here after some comments on last weeks MWM, which I felt were not only a bit bad taste, but completely wrong.

We're sitting about how terrible Red Bull are doing, and MWM say they're petulant children, even after the petulant child left (which I felt was a pathetic low blow attack at a driver, but whatever), and it's even been said multiple times that other teams are doing better with the same engine, and even STR is "kicking their butts up and down the pit lane".

Well, from what I can see, there are 2 teams running Renault engines, and of those 2, Red Bull has over double the points of STR, and between RBR and STR, there is Force India, Lotus and Sauber, who all have significantly better engines. There doesn't seem to be any basis to claim that STR are performing better than RBR and it's actually all RBRs fault.

So are Red Bull doing THAT badly, and how are we measuring this engine given the lack of cars it's in?
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Old 30 Jun 2015, 16:53 (Ref:3554963)   #20
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According to Force India's deputy team principal Bob Fernley, if Red Bull do pull out, it could start a necessary change to the championship's regulations.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119755
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Old 30 Jun 2015, 17:09 (Ref:3554970)   #21
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I'm making a post here after some comments on last weeks MWM, which I felt were not only a bit bad taste, but completely wrong.
I might be living under a rock, but I have no clue who or what MWM is so I can't comment on what they are saying.

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Well, from what I can see, there are 2 teams running Renault engines, and of those 2, Red Bull has over double the points of STR, and between RBR and STR, there is Force India, Lotus and Sauber, who all have significantly better engines. There doesn't seem to be any basis to claim that STR are performing better than RBR and it's actually all RBRs fault.

So are Red Bull doing THAT badly, and how are we measuring this engine given the lack of cars it's in?
So this I do find interesting. I wouldn't claim STR are performing better than RBR in general. The points do show that is not true. What I would say is that given they are using the same engine... STR is performing better in comparison to RBR than they should be given who STR and RBR are in the historic F1 pecking order. We have seen STR dice during qualifying and in the race with RBR in ways that previously was not considered to be fathomable.

Speaking of points... You have RBR at 55 and STR at 19 (spread of 34 which is not that much) with Force India, Lotus and Sauber all sandwiched in between. They are all pretty much grouped together. So it's not out of the question to compare that group together which is a sad commentary on how RBR is doing this year. Also, as you point that group has a mix of engines. So that could be an argument that the Renault engine is not that bad (However I don't believe that argument)

IMHO, it's not ALL about the Renault PU.

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Old 1 Jul 2015, 07:54 (Ref:3555132)   #22
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MWM is Midweek Motorsport. The Radio Le Mans Podcast. Whilst I adore RLM, they are becoming steadily more preachy about F1 and it's begining to grate. The comments made against Red Bull didn't really have much basis of fact and sounded more like a childrens forum post, ranting about how terrible Red Bull has become.

I fully agree that the Renault PU is not all to blame, but at the end of the day, the Red Bull is the best performing car with the Renault PU, so it's kinda hard to judge how badly they're doing. And Renault are blowing up more engines than anyone else (except maybe Honda), and have admitted a few times they have had serious issues with the units.

So really, what are we expecting Red Bull to do? We know it's the weakest of the 3 PU (excluding Honda, for obvious reasons), and Red Bull are the best of the Renault teams. So are we saying Red Bull are rubbish just because STR are having a good year? If STR drop off and RBR don't, will RBR said to be performing better? The yard stick of how we measure performance seems to be very fluent.
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Old 1 Jul 2015, 15:15 (Ref:3555212)   #23
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Repaint the STR's into Red Bull colours, and repaint the RB's into STR colours. Simple.
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Old 1 Jul 2015, 15:20 (Ref:3555214)   #24
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They need Newey back 24/7 designing their car - not going off to design a yacht for the American Cup.

I suspect that the aero on the car from last year was pretty decent - this year - not so.

The Renault engine isn't good - although the to other Renault engined teams seem to be making better use of it, at the moment. It's interesting - as Renault are known for making good engines(their old turbos they got right, the team-up with Williams was superb, likewise some of their engines in Schumi's Benetton and their ones for Alonso). It's still taking time for them to develop - but I think we do have to say : "Come on guys - what's going on?"

They do have a strong driver line-up. Danny Boy put in some impressive performances at Monaco and Austria. Kyvat seems pretty feisty too. They both know that the car isn't the best - yet, they do seem to be putting the effort in.

Maybe - now that Horner is married to Geri - he can focus more on the problems at Red Bull?

I don't know if the rumoured change over to Ferrari engines would help - because they probably wouldn't get the latest unit from them. It would be better than they have now - but still probably be second tier.
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Old 1 Jul 2015, 15:21 (Ref:3555215)   #25
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Repaint the STR's into Red Bull colours, and repaint the RB's into STR colours. Simple.
They should paint one car from each team in the others colors, just in case.
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