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Old 31 Jan 2010, 19:40 (Ref:2623099)   #151
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Originally Posted by bigears View Post
You are correct, it said on the entry list from the 1988 BSP programme saying that Win Percy is there but then I didn't update my 1988 BSP Excel file saying that Ratzenberger drove the car.
Still fascinating news as Win raced or tested just about every possible Group A car of the era, but this is the first time I have seen his name linked to a BMW M3.

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Old 31 Jan 2010, 20:30 (Ref:2623168)   #152
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Still fascinating news as Win raced or tested just about every possible Group A car of the era, but this is the first time I have seen his name linked to a BMW M3.

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Who had the no.44 earlier in the season? Also it said on the entry list that Win Percy was entering his own(?) Schitzer tuned BMW M3 but then Alan Minshaw took the number and put Ratzenberger in the Demon Tweeks BMW M3.

Would it be the same car? But the Minshaw BMW was also Schitzer tuned as well.
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Old 31 Jan 2010, 21:22 (Ref:2623224)   #153
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Who had the no.44 earlier in the season? Also it said on the entry list that Win Percy was entering his own(?) Schitzer tuned BMW M3 but then Alan Minshaw took the number and put Ratzenberger in the Demon Tweeks BMW M3.

Would it be the same car? But the Minshaw BMW was also Schitzer tuned as well.
Alan Minshaw had a few races in his #44 Demon Tweeks BMW M3 of 1987Prodrive origin. Roland Ratzenberger was the fastest and most prolific driver of the car, but Chris Hodgetts had a go too.
A Schnitzer car for the BTCC would have been something.

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Old 1 Feb 2010, 16:26 (Ref:2623767)   #154
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A Schnitzer M3 would certainly have made life interesting- and I'm sure Andy Rouse might have welcomed it's presence given the potential it had to make Sytner's life more complicated in the same way that the visiting Eggenberger RS500 had taken points away from Andy...

I have to admit Win Percy wouldn't have been the obvious driver I'd have associated with such a venture, given his Nissan contract that season- and I can't recall the last time he drove a BMW before '88...

An appearance in the Demon Tweeks car seems more probable- Minshaw aimed pretty high in the calibre of driver he put in the car after he stepped down from the drive himself following the Oulton shunt- a BMW-contracted driver in Ratzenberger, and a 2xBTCC Champ in Hodgetts, and Win Percy would have certainly fitted that trend- Alan certainly didn't seem to be in the business of hiring the car out to club racers looking for a drive at a high-profile meeting...

Minshaw's car was ex-Prodrive, rather than Schnitzer, although apparently it was rebuilt after the Oulton shunt, with a new shell from Schnitzer, according to what's been posted in the M3 thread. Might this have caused some confusion in the press over the car's origins- especially if Alan had updated the car during the season using parts from the same source...?

Last edited by KA; 1 Feb 2010 at 16:32.
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Old 1 Feb 2010, 21:37 (Ref:2624039)   #155
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Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?
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Old 2 Feb 2010, 09:35 (Ref:2624261)   #156
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Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?
The main conflict of interest from Schnitzer getting too closely involved with anyone's BTCC campaign is that as an official BMW factory-backed team, they'd be risking interfering with the BMW GB-backed Prodrive team's championhip hopes....Arguably, Ford's failure to avoid a similar situation (Eggenberger's BTCC visits and Rouse's TT win) contributed to both championships, BTCC and ETCC going BMW's way....
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Old 2 Feb 2010, 09:42 (Ref:2624267)   #157
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The main conflict of interest from Schnitzer getting too closely involved with anyone's BTCC campaign is that as an official BMW factory-backed team, they'd be risking interfering with the BMW GB-backed Prodrive team's championhip hopes....Arguably, Ford's failure to avoid a similar situation (Eggenberger's BTCC visits and Rouse's TT win) contributed to both championships, BTCC and ETCC going BMW's way....
That's true KA, but in the Ford situation, Rouse wasn't an official Ford Works Team, so they couldn't be told to let Eggenberger win the TT. (Probably then a spiteful reaction to send Eggenberger cars to the BTCC and take points away from Rouse. This is the sort of problem you get when Manufacturers become involved with championships that also include very capable non-works teams...)
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Old 2 Feb 2010, 10:05 (Ref:2624280)   #158
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From what I know, Andy Rouse received support from Ford GB for 1988 and perhaps in 1989 too. Robb Gravett mentioned that his' and Mike Smith's Trakstar team didn't receive any support from Ford by 1989 as they allready supported Andy Rouse.

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Old 7 Feb 2010, 10:44 (Ref:2628445)   #159
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Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?
Further to KA's, Jesper's and VIVA's quite correct thoughts, I also understood it that Minshaw faced some difficulty in obtaining certain bits from Prodrive (the cars previous owners and builder...) once his car started to become a thorn in the side of the works cars in the hands of a previous Munich contracted driver; Ratzenberger.....

This probably explains, if indeed it was the case, why he needed to source bits from Germany direct. The car also became rather less of a pain to Sytner as the saeason drew to a close. I doubt that would have been Roland's fault but perhaps some pressure was asserted on Minshaw from somewhere with the title at stake.

The David Sears/Maguire car then became a rather late, and although quick enough, unsuccesssful M3 ally to Rouse's campaign.
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Old 18 Mar 2010, 21:14 (Ref:2655137)   #160
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A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 06:44 (Ref:2655361)   #161
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A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.
Excellent link, as there seems to be a fair few other 1988 related videos.

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Old 19 Mar 2010, 12:27 (Ref:2655523)   #162
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A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.
A few things I've spotted in that so far...

Firstly, we can confirm the race number for the Kevin Eaton MIL/East Midlands Transport Corolla as #69 (seen clearly at 4:12 and 4:19)

At the beginning, the Bob Sands RS500 is running slowly, right at the back of the pack, obviously affected already by the gearbox problem that caused retirement after 1 lap

In the result we don't have a reason for Pete Hall's retirement after 4 laps- looking at the video, he has a spin right in front of the camera (at 2:27) , pulls off onto the grass (accompanied by James Kaye in the Demon Tweeks Golf). Once they've sorted out avoiding each other on the grass, Kaye pulls back onto the track and resumes pretty quickly, while Hall rejoins the circuit and drives off very slowly hugging the RH side of the track- and doesn't appear again. So did something break causing the original spin, or did he damage the Sierra going off the track?


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PositionNumberDriverTeam/SponsorClassCarTime/Laps
1 #22 Andy Rouse Rouse-Kaliber A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 31m54.36s
2 #7 Mike O'Brien Docking / Autoglass A Holden Commodore VL 32m09.06s
3 #8 Jerry Mahony Dowson-Arquati A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m40.10s
4 #5 Tim Harvey Drury / Sumo Giants A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m52.79s
5 #14 Mike Newman Goode / Burlington A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m55.38s
6 #33 Frank Sytner Prodrive-BMW Finance/Mobil B BMW M3 33m14.25s
7 #44 Alan Minshaw Minshaw-Demon Tweeks B BMW M3 33m15.24s
8 #36 Godfrey Hall Maguire / MILA B BMW M3 33m20.00s
9 #27 Peter Buxtorf Buxtorf A BMW 635CSi 16 laps
10 #70 Phil Dowsett TOM's GB D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
11 #60 Mark Hales CHMS / AJG Transport D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
12 #77 Geoff Kimber-Smith AGK Motorsport D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
13 #20 Graham Hathaway Hathaway / Soans A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 16 laps
14 #32 Mike Smith Prodrive-BMW Finance/Mobil B BMW M3 16 laps
15 #69 ? Kevin Eaton MIL Motorsport / East Midlands Transport D Toyota Corolla GT 15 laps
DNF #50 James Kaye Minshaw / Demon Tweeks & Slick 50 C VW Golf GTI 16v 14 laps – driveshaft
DNF #39 Lionel Wiffen Drury B Ford Escort RST 12 laps – turbo pipe
DNF #15 Graham Goode GGR / Listerine -Texaco A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 11 laps – engine
DNF #19 Laurence Bristow Rouse-CAM Shipping A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 10 laps - diff
DNF #16 Karl Jones Asquith / Duckhams A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth7 laps – engine
DNF #10 Pete Hall Rouse / ICS A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 4 laps
DNF #38 Dave Wallis Drury / Kenwood Car Hi-Fi B Ford Escort RST 3 laps – accident
DNF #48 Andrew Jeffrey Specialist Cars Aberdeen C VW Golf GTI 16V 3 laps – driveshaft
DNF #17 Bob Sands CC Racing / Crystal Facilities A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 1 lap – gearbox
DNF #1 Chris Hodgetts MIL / Shell - Toyota A Toyota Supra Turbo 0 laps – driveshaft
DNA #6 Steve Soper Eggenberger-Texaco A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth Dock strike

Fastest laps - weather was drizzly for the race, so times were slower than qualifying
Class A - Bristow 1m45.91s
Class B - Sytner 1m49.09s
Class C - Kaye 1m57.68s
Class D - Dowsett 1m53.93s

Race had originally been scheduled for 16 laps, then upped to 20. Eventually ran over 17 (47.07miles), as William said, because of the Minshaw crash. There was a bit of contention about that "accident".

Grid (3-2-3) - I would assume that pole at Oulton was on the right rather than the the left
3 - Bristow, 2 - Mahony, 1 - Rouse (A pole - 1m41.67)
5 - P Hall, 4 - Goode
8 Sands, 7 G Hall, 6 - Sytner (B pole - 1m44.90s),
10 - ?, 9 Newman ,
13 Minshaw, 12 Harvey, 11 Jones
15 O'Brien 14 Hodgetts,
18 Smith 17 Hathaway, 16 Buxtorf,
20 Hales, 19 Dowsett (D pole 1m50.39s)
23 Eaton, 22 Kimber-Smith, 21 Wallis
25 Kaye, 24 Jeffrey (C pole 1m56.11s)
26 Wiffen



James Weaver deputised for Smitty in testing and a practice session, due to Mike's broadcasting commitments - this might account for the missing number 10 slot on the grid, which could shift the rest of the grid around. Maybe there's more info on the video? I have it, but don't have a VHS player any more!

Other info - The two Golfs are both ex-Tarmac rally cars. Mike O'Brien was still in the VL Commodore as the evoultion engine hadn't turned up from Australia. Andy Rouse won AT Oulton on Friday, and then also won the first round of the French championship at Nogaro. Pete Hall retired, both from the race, and from racing due to work pressures.
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 12:36 (Ref:2655533)   #163
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Interesting to see [and hear] the gorgeous 635CSi of Peter Buxtorf. Was he Swiss and I wonder is this the same guy here ?
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 12:41 (Ref:2655535)   #164
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Excellent link, as there seems to be a fair few other 1988 related videos.

Jesper
Great stuff- the Rouse v Soper duel from Brands (Round 8) is up as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkfLQ...eature=related
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Old 19 Mar 2010, 12:51 (Ref:2655548)   #165
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Interesting to see [and hear] the gorgeous 635CSi of Peter Buxtorf. Was he Swiss and I wonder is this the same guy here ?
Peter Buxtorf was Swiss as far as I remember, and that could be hin in your link. (I am also sure that he looked like that!)
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