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Old 9 Jan 2010, 11:46 (Ref:2610415)   #16
Tim Wilkinson
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Tim Wilkinson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The times I put in my post are the ones given in Autosport. What I meant was that the time you originally had for Hall finsihing 3rd in class was actually that of Minshaw, 4th in class, and Hall had been right on the tail of the Prodrive BMWs.
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 11:48 (Ref:2610417)   #17
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Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Few more titbits for you whilst i'm on Jesper!

/ #5 / Tim Harvey / Drury-Istel / A / Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth / 4th in class
Istel backing came later in the year, IIRC Tim's car was almost plain white in the first few rounds? Needs confirming though
I'm sure you're right about that- I think there were a few one-off sponsorship deals here and there in the early rounds, but the car was predominantly plain white until the Istel backing came back. I've seen a pic of it recently in that state, in a contemporary Piper Cams magazine ad- Piper were the most visible sponsor on the car early-season, and stayed on the car after the return of Istel

Donington late-season in Istel/Piper colours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...n/photostream/
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 11:51 (Ref:2610418)   #18
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Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson View Post
The times I put in my post are the ones given in Autosport. What I meant was that the time you originally had for Hall finsihing 3rd in class was actually that of Minshaw, 4th in class, and Hall had been right on the tail of the Prodrive BMWs.
See your point now. Overwhelmet of the replies, I haven't checked my original data yet.

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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:00 (Ref:2610421)   #19
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Originally Posted by KA View Post
I'm sure you're right about that- I think there were a few one-off sponsorship deals here and there in the early rounds, but the car was predominantly plain white until the Istel backing came back. I've seen a pic of it recently in that state, in a contemporary Piper Cams magazine ad- Piper were the most visible sponsor on the car early-season, and stayed on the car after the return of Istel

Donington late-season in Istel/Piper colours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...n/photostream/
I should have known better, as I half remember Tim Harvey telling the story of Istel becomming a sponsor during the 1988 season in an Autosport interview late 1980's/early 1990's. Don't know why Istel dropped Harvey in the first place as they seemed to go very well together in future deals, but had it something to do with Austin Rover products vs. Ford? Another vague memory, that is.

I will continue my current format of presenting the results but as there seems to be a lot more info around than for the earlier years, I will re-post them with the info gathered, when the dust is about to settle.

Jesper
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:04 (Ref:2610422)   #20
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Round 2 of 13 of the 1988 Dunlop RAC British Touring Car Championship held on Sunday 1st April 1988 over x laps on the x.xxx miles Oulton Park circuit.
The full circuit was used, measuring 4.456km. The race length was scheduled to be 20 laps, but the race was stopped after 17 laps due to a big accident between Sytner and Minshaw that saw the Demon Tweeks M3 roll ending up on the wrong side of the guardrail. Results, once again, courtesy of Motorsport:

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/Laps
122Rouse / KaliberAndy RouseFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A31m54.36s
27Alan Docking RacingMike O'BrienHolden Commodore VL (HDT)A32m09.06s
38Roger Dowson / ArquatiJerry MahonyFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m40.10s
45Terry Drury RacingTim HarveyFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m52.79s
514Graham Goode / BurlingtonMike NewmanFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m55.38s
633ProdriveFrank SytnerBMW M3B33m14.25s
744Demon TweeksAlan MinshawBMW M3B33m15.24s
843John MaguireGodfrey HallBMW M3B33m20.00s
927Peter BuxtorfPeter BuxtorfBMW 635CSiA16 laps
1070TOM'S GBPhil DowsettToyota Corolla FX GTD16 laps
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:09 (Ref:2610429)   #21
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If it helps, I've copied over the 1988 entry list I posted in the other thread Jesper linked to- with a few corrections/additions since I originally did it. First driver named started the season, the others mentioned either shared the car at Donington or replaced/stood in for the original driver at some point in the year....

Class A

1 MIL Motorsport Toyota Supra Turbo: Chris Hodgetts/Vic Lee/Mark Hales/Ian Flux
2 MIL Motorsport Supra Turbo: Vic Lee
4 Dennis Leech Rover Vitesse: Dennis Leech/David Carvell
5 Terry Drury Racing Ford Sierra RS500: Tim Harvey
6 Eggenberger RS500: Steve Soper/Gianfranco Brancatelli
7 Alan Docking Racing Holden Commodore VL: Mike O'Brien/Sean Brown
8 Roger Dowson/Arquati RS500: Jerry Mahony/Mark Hales
10 Rouse/ICS RS500; Pete Hall/Gary Ayles/Robb Gravett/Mark Hales
11 Brooklyn Motorsport RS500: Chris Hodgetts
12 TWR Holden Commodore VL: Tom Walkinshaw
14 Graham Goode/Burlington RS500: Mike Newman/Robert Speak
15 Graham Goode/Listerine RS500: Graham Goode/Alistair Lyall
16 Asquith Autosport RS500: Karl Jones/Ian Flux
17 CC Motosport/Crystal RS500: Bob Sands/Richard Jones
19 Rouse/Baynard Cars/CAM Shipping RS500: Laurence Bristow/Tim Harvey
20 Graham Hathaway RS500; Graham Hathaway/Peter Townsend/Rob Wilson
21 Rouse/Kaliber RS500: Guy Edwards/Johnny Dumfries
22 Rouse/Kaliber RS500: Andy Rouse/David Sears
23 Nissan M'sport Europe Nissan Skyline GTSR: Win Percy/Allan Grice
24 Trident Motorsport Maserati Biturbo: Nick May/John Lepp
26 ECM Vehicle Delivery RS500: Tom Bell/Ray McDowell
27 Peter Buxtorf BMW 635CSI: Peter Buxtorf/Barry Robinson
30 BBR RS500: Dave Brodie

31 Brookside Garage Alfa Romeo 75 V6: Jon Dooley
32 Prodrive BMW M3: Mike Smith/Will Hoy/James Weaver
33 Prodrive M3: Frank Sytner/James Weaver
34 Prodrive M3: Will Hoy/Lionel Abbott
36 John Maguire M3: David Sears
38 Terry Drury Ford Escort RS Turbo: Dave Wallis/Lionel Abbott
39 Terry Drury Escort RS Turbo: Lionel Wiffen/Robin Parsons
43 John Maguire M3; Godfrey Hall/Barrie Williams
44 Demon Tweeks M3: Alan Minshaw/Roland Ratzenberger/Chris Hodgetts

Class C
48 Specialist Cars Aberdeen VW Golf GTI: Andrew Jeffrey/John Clark
50 Demon Tweeks Golf GTI: Jmes Kaye/John Brindley/John Llewellyn/John Morris
55 John Maguire Golf GTI: James Shead/John Morris
?? Hawes Group Honda Prelude: Martin Wray

Class D

Still can't swear I've got the MIL & CHMS Corollas 100% right....

60 CHMS Toyota Corolla GT: Mark Hales/Patrick Watts
61/69 MIL Motorsport Corolla: Kevin Eaton/Alex Moss/John Llewellyn
61 CHMS Corolla: Dave Loudoun/Nick Whale/Mark Goddard/Richard Belcher
63 Tony Crudgington Corolla: Tony Crudgington/Alistair Davidson
70 TOM'S GB Corolla (fwd) : Phil Dowsett/Tiff Needell
74 North Essex M'sport Ford Escort RS1600i- Vic Lee/Jeremy Rossiter/Barbara Cowell
75 AJG Transport RS1600i- Mark Goddard
77 AGK Motorsport Corolla: Geoff Kimber-Smith/Barbara Cowell
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:31 (Ref:2610441)   #22
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
I should have known better, as I half remember Tim Harvey telling the story of Istel becomming a sponsor during the 1988 season in an Autosport interview late 1980's/early 1990's. Don't know why Istel dropped Harvey in the first place as they seemed to go very well together in future deals, but had it something to do with Austin Rover products vs. Ford? Another vague memory, that is.

I will continue my current format of presenting the results but as there seems to be a lot more info around than for the earlier years, I will re-post them with the info gathered, when the dust is about to settle.

Jesper
They hadn't dropped Harvey totally, as they were still backing the Harvey/Hodgetts Tiga in the BRDC C2 sportscar series- though that of course used an Austin Rover engine. Must admit, I hadn't thought of the ARG v Ford angle to the question. They did sponsor his outings in the Charles Ivey Tiga-Porsche at Le Mans though IIRC
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:32 (Ref:2610442)   #23
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Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson View Post
Yes, it disappeared mid-season, and was up for sale for the latter part of the year. Ad says 4 events from new - it was built new for '88, and had a Rouse engine and suspension.

I think it reappeared in '89 as the first JQF/Fina car for Gerrit van Kouwen (before they brought out the "active" car mid-season) and also reappeared in '90 for a handful of outings with Stuart Donnan, before he Thundersaloon-ed it.


Other info for round 1 - Karl Jones was supposed to be there in the Asquith RS500, but a dock strike stopped some wheels arriving, and the team didn't think the car would be competitive on what it had (16s, as Avon tyres wouldn't fit the 17s they had) so they delayed until round 2 at Oulton. Geoff Kimber-Smith didn't have his Corolla ready in time - suspension issues.

Mike O'Brien was planning to debut an updated ex-Brock VL-SS Commodore at round 2.
Missed this post first time out. Was those wheels French Gotti rims? They were used on a fair few rally Cossies, but rare on the circuits.

GK-S was a DNA then

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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:39 (Ref:2610445)   #24
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Originally Posted by KA View Post
They hadn't dropped Harvey totally, as they were still backing the Harvey/Hodgetts Tiga in the BRDC C2 sportscar series- though that of course used an Austin Rover engine. Must admit, I hadn't thought of the ARG v Ford angle to the question. They did sponsor his outings in the Charles Ivey Tiga-Porsche at Le Mans though IIRC
Then again, ARG and Porsche were never really in competition for the average consumer car market like ARG and Ford. But it also begs the question, what was Istel dealing in? They had sponsored the high profile Tourist Trophy from mid-1980s to the comma in 1988.

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Old 9 Jan 2010, 12:50 (Ref:2610449)   #25
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Originally Posted by William Dale Jr View Post
The full circuit was used, measuring 4.456km. The race length was scheduled to be 20 laps, but the race was stopped after 17 laps due to a big accident between Sytner and Minshaw that saw the Demon Tweeks M3 roll ending up on the wrong side of the guardrail. Results, once again, courtesy of Motorsport:
I think I can fill the rest of that in from 11th place on:

PositionNumberEntrantDriverCarClassRace Time/Laps
122Rouse / KaliberAndy RouseFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A31m54.36s
27Alan Docking RacingMike O'BrienHolden Commodore VL (HDT)A32m09.06s
38Roger Dowson / ArquatiJerry MahonyFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m40.10s
45Terry Drury RacingTim HarveyFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m52.79s
514Graham Goode / BurlingtonMike NewmanFord Sierra Cosworth RS500A32m55.38s
633ProdriveFrank SytnerBMW M3B33m14.25s
744Demon TweeksAlan MinshawBMW M3B33m15.24s
843John MaguireGodfrey HallBMW M3B33m20.00s
927Peter BuxtorfPeter BuxtorfBMW 635CSiA16 laps
1070TOM'S GBPhil DowsettToyota Corolla FX GTD16 laps
11??CHMS?Mark HalesToyota Corolla GTD16 laps
1277AGK MotorsportGeoff Kimber-SmithToyota Corolla GTD16 laps
1320Graham Hathaway RacingGraham HathawaySierra RS500A16 laps
1432ProdriveMike SmithBMW M3B16 laps
1569?MIL Motorsport?Kevin EatonCorolla GTD15 laps
DNF50Demon TweeksJames KayeVW Golf GTi 16vC15 laps- driveshaft
DNF39Terry Drury RacingLionel WiffenFord Escort RS TurboB12 laps- turbo
DNF15Graham Goode/ListerineGraham GoodeSierra RS500A11 laps-electrics
DNF19Rouse/CAM ShippingLawrence BristowSierra RS500A10 laps- differential
DNF10Rouse/ICSPete HallSierra RS500A4 laps- reason unknown
DNF16Asquith/DuckhamsKarl JonesSierra RS500A4 laps-overheating
DNF48Specialist Cars AberdeenAndrew JeffreyGolf GTi 16vC3 laps- driveshaft
DNF38Terry Drury RacingDave WallisEscort RS TurboB3 laps- gearbox
DNF17CC MotorsportBob SandsSierra RS500A0 laps- clutch
DNF1MIL MotorsportChris HodgettsToyota Supra TurboA0 laps- driveshaft
[/QUOTE]
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 13:00 (Ref:2610456)   #26
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PositionNumberDriverTeam/SponsorClassCarTime/Laps
1 #22 Andy Rouse Rouse-Kaliber A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 31m54.36s
2 #7 Mike O'Brien Docking / Autoglass A Holden Commodore VL 32m09.06s
3 #8 Jerry Mahony Dowson-Arquati A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m40.10s
4 #5 Tim Harvey Drury / Sumo Giants A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m52.79s
5 #14 Mike Newman Goode / Burlington A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 32m55.38s
6 #33 Frank Sytner Prodrive-BMW Finance/Mobil B BMW M3 33m14.25s
7 #44 Alan Minshaw Minshaw-Demon Tweeks B BMW M3 33m15.24s
8 #36 Godfrey Hall Maguire / MILA B BMW M3 33m20.00s
9 #27 Peter Buxtorf Buxtorf A BMW 635CSi 16 laps
10 #70 Phil Dowsett TOM's GB D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
11 #60 Mark Hales CHMS / AJG Transport D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
12 #77 Geoff Kimber-Smith AGK Motorsport D Toyota Corolla GT 16 laps
13 #20 Graham Hathaway Hathaway / Soans A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 16 laps
14 #32 Mike Smith Prodrive-BMW Finance/Mobil B BMW M3 16 laps
15 ? Kevin Eaton MIL Motorsport / East Midlands Transport D Toyota Corolla GT 15 laps
DNF #50 James Kaye Minshaw / Demon Tweeks & Slick 50 C VW Golf GTI 16v 14 laps – driveshaft
DNF #39 Lionel Wiffen Drury B Ford Escort RST 12 laps – turbo pipe
DNF #15 Graham Goode GGR / Listerine -Texaco A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 11 laps – engine
DNF #19 Laurence Bristow Rouse-CAM Shipping A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 10 laps - diff
DNF #16 Karl Jones Asquith / Duckhams A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth7 laps – engine
DNF #10 Pete Hall Rouse / ICS A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 4 laps
DNF #38 Dave Wallis Drury / Kenwood Car Hi-Fi B Ford Escort RST 3 laps – accident
DNF #48 Andrew Jeffrey Specialist Cars Aberdeen C VW Golf GTI 16V 3 laps – driveshaft
DNF #17 Bob Sands CC Racing / Crystal Facilities A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth 1 lap – gearbox
DNF #1 Chris Hodgetts MIL / Shell - Toyota A Toyota Supra Turbo 0 laps – driveshaft
DNA #6 Steve Soper Eggenberger-Texaco A Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth Dock strike

Fastest laps - weather was drizzly for the race, so times were slower than qualifying
Class A - Bristow 1m45.91s
Class B - Sytner 1m49.09s
Class C - Kaye 1m57.68s
Class D - Dowsett 1m53.93s

Race had originally been scheduled for 16 laps, then upped to 20. Eventually ran over 17 (47.07miles), as William said, because of the Minshaw crash. There was a bit of contention about that "accident".

Grid (3-2-3) - I would assume that pole at Oulton was on the right rather than the the left
3 - Bristow, 2 - Mahony, 1 - Rouse (A pole - 1m41.67)
5 - P Hall, 4 - Goode
8 Sands, 7 G Hall, 6 - Sytner (B pole - 1m44.90s),
10 - ?, 9 Newman ,
13 Minshaw, 12 Harvey, 11 Jones
15 O'Brien 14 Hodgetts,
18 Smith 17 Hathaway, 16 Buxtorf,
20 Hales, 19 Dowsett (D pole 1m50.39s)
23 Eaton, 22 Kimber-Smith, 21 Wallis
25 Kaye, 24 Jeffrey (C pole 1m56.11s)
26 Wiffen



James Weaver deputised for Smitty in testing and a practice session, due to Mike's broadcasting commitments - this might account for the missing number 10 slot on the grid, which could shift the rest of the grid around. Maybe there's more info on the video? I have it, but don't have a VHS player any more!

Other info - The two Golfs are both ex-Tarmac rally cars. Mike O'Brien was still in the VL Commodore as the evoultion engine hadn't turned up from Australia. Andy Rouse won AT Oulton on Friday, and then also won the first round of the French championship at Nogaro. Pete Hall retired, both from the race, and from racing due to work pressures.
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 13:07 (Ref:2610463)   #27
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Missed this post first time out. Was those wheels French Gotti rims? They were used on a fair few rally Cossies, but rare on the circuits.

GK-S was a DNA then

Jesper
Speedlines didn't arrive, Revolutions wouldn't fit the Avons. At Oulton, Harvey was having the same problem with unavailability of suitable wheels - it says he was using ones from the Escort RSTs ( I suppose TDR had a fair few lying around!). Harvey had also got a better, Getrag, diff for the Oulton event. Rouse was the only runner with a very heavy-duty diff - I suppose a new part.

Mr Dale beat me to the table!
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 13:16 (Ref:2610466)   #28
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Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Then again, ARG and Porsche were never really in competition for the average consumer car market like ARG and Ford. But it also begs the question, what was Istel dealing in? They had sponsored the high profile Tourist Trophy from mid-1980s to the comma in 1988.

Jesper
Istel were in the IT & telecommunications business- and were originally a part of BL/Austin Rover- formed in 1979 as British Leyland Systems from BL's various in-house IT departments (so the ARG v Ford thing does make sense!), later taking on work for external customers as well
They were sold off in a management buyout in 1987, and bought by AT&T a couple of years later
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/compa...y-History.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTEL

With that history, then yes,your theory about them being mainly a BL/Austin Rover sponsor makes perfect sense.

Just to add a bit of confusion to the issue though, Lawrence Bristow had Istel sponsorship on his prodsaloon Cosworth in '87- (Was this a continuation of the Istel backed team that had run Istel Rovers for Harvey in Prodsaloons in '86- I think Tim did some prodsaloons alongside his BTCC Rover campaign in '87?)

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...wCC25-5-87.jpg
(Castle Combe, May '87- originally posted by 'La Sarthe' in the Autosport RS500 thread a couple of months back)
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2610473)   #29
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The two Golfs are both ex-Tarmac rally cars. Mike O'Brien was still in the VL Commodore as the evoultion engine hadn't turned up from Australia. Andy Rouse won AT Oulton on Friday, and then also won the first round of the French championship at Nogaro. Pete Hall retired, both from the race, and from racing due to work pressures.
Thanks Tim- I'd only transcribed the result from the Autosport report, and didn't have any of the background

The Golfs were probably ex-David Sutton Motorsport/VW GB cars- although run by different teams, both the Jeffrey and Shead cars carried the same basic blue/white colourscheme
The evolution Commodore engine and bodykit eventually hit the track late-season (August/September I think) due to homologation delays...
As you said, Pete Hall called time on his BTCC career, and Robb Gravett took over the ICS RS500 drive for the rest of the season

Last edited by KA; 9 Jan 2010 at 13:37.
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Old 9 Jan 2010, 13:46 (Ref:2610483)   #30
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Thanks Tim- I'd only transcribed the result from the Autosport report, and didn't have any of the background

The Golfs were probably ex-David Sutton Motorsport/VW GB cars- although run by different teams, both the Jeffrey and Shead cars carried the same basic blue/white colourscheme
The works Group A rallycars carried a similar livery. Sutton had run a 'VW Junior Team' on the British Championship using Golfs- possibly 3/4 cars? Did any of these become the Shead/Jeffery BTCC cars, or were they sourced from VW in Germany

The pic shows Shead leading an interesting mix of the lower end of the grid, including the Maserati, ECM Sierra and various Class D Corollas at Donington late-season. The Jeffery Golf is just visible at the back of the group I think
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