Indy Car tangents unlimited

[Kicking-back]

Where have I been insulting?

It's a series for non-career drivers, racing for enjoyment.

That's not an insult.

[JohnSSC]

I think what Bob is trying to say is that to run that level of equipment one is more than just out for "fun" and likely (and deservedly) views himself as having a career, albeit at the lower rungs of the ladder.

Running one of those beasts on a 5/8 mile flat track would be a real rush! Wouldn't mind a lap or 2 myself - I may be old, but I can still fit. Of course, ther is that talent thing I may be a little light in besides my weight...

[jhansen]

Figured I should bring this over here. We were having a discussion on alternative racetracks in the "Richmond" thread. Anyways, Hanford Speedway was brought up. I finally found something about it. Here's what it looked like in the late '60's. Although this track had numerous configurations.

http://www.racingcircuits.net/UnitedStates/ca/

That's a great site by the way. Lists lots of tracks.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by jhansen
Figured I should bring this over here. We were having a discussion on alternative racetracks in the "Richmond" thread. Anyways, Hanford Speedway was brought up. I finally found something about it. Here's what it looked like in the late '60's. Although this track had numerous configurations.

http://www.racingcircuits.net/UnitedStates/ca/

That's a great site by the way. Lists lots of tracks.

Thank you J, it looks like Hanford may have influenced Pocono.
Bob

[jhansen]

It's too bad that most ovals these days seem to be taking the same configuration. I love the oddballs out there. Nazereth and Phoenix are great 1-mile configurations and Pocano is truely unique. Gateway is a recent addition that had a somewhat unconventional setup.

[Tim Northcutt]

Gateway reminds me of a smaller Darlington with flatter banks (the aerial shape....

Personally, I don't think Gateway or Nazareth make for very good racing, but that IMO...

[jhansen]

It's just a differnt kind of racing. The oddball tracks offer a good challenge to the engineers in setting up the car. It also provides a different challenge for the drivers. I find these kinds of tracks essential to a championship, as they provide different tests throughout the year. But I respect your opinion Tim. I suppose most fans do not like these tracks.

[Tim Northcutt]

I like the variety of circuits, and each has its own unique elements (with the exception of the "cookie cutter 1.5 mile NASCAR-designed ovals that are so prevalent -- Kansas, Kentucky, Las Vegas, etc...)

I just like to see passing....and those two tracks don't seem to provide as much of it as others do....

BTW....What ever happened to Orlando, and why did it "go away???"

I believe that the Tony George, the IRL and Disney were all partners to build that track.....

[jhansen]

Good question Tim. I have no idea. It must still be there though? By the way, check your pm's Tim.

[Bob Riebe]

J:
I was looking throught that directory of tracks, to get a look at some of the defunct tracks that USAC and others ran at.
It is very sad that many, if not most of the old tracks or current tracks not used by the bigs series, were sweet flowing tracks, they flowed like roads (which are meant to keep traffic moving); whereas todays circuits look more like imitations of streets in a town. Slow and kinky like a go-cart track.

IF The IRL wants to go outside the USA go back to Argentine and Rafaela. Run the full Oval track there, that would be very,very interesting.
I would have loved to see what the 4 liter cars, minus rev. limiters would have run there, or AIS which said it wanted to run in South America before it went belly-up.
Bring back the big fast and obscene tracks. Some men are still men and would love to prove it.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

http://www.racingcircuits.net/

I want to thank,again, whom ever it was that listed this link.
I find it very interesting to, in the menu, click on circuit types, and then click on ovals.
One finds a wonderful variety of shapes and sizes, especially overseas.
South Africa seems to have good number of ovals still existing, as does South America.
If one had megabucks, w fascinating World Series of Super Ovals could be put on.
Some of the tracks exist but no longer hold races, but that could be overcome.

Argentina has one track, it still races horses, that is .9 some miles long and has probably the most unique shape for a sprint car track I have ever seen.

There used to be some very, very big tracks. To think that back in the teens to thirties they were racing cars and bikes at speeds well over 100 mph on these tracks. ( Also they were lapping some 1/2 mile dirt tracks at over 100 mph before WWII)
I think it says some where in the Bible, One who risks nothing gains nothing. They must have read the Bible often back then.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

I was going through my book(annot remember name) which cover Indy racing from 1960-1969(plus a too brief mention of 1970), those of you over-seas should take advantage of the weak dollar and get one. You will have a much better understanding of where Indy cars have come from and what CART was messing with when it started.)

I noticed (this will be greek to all but a few readers here) that the beginning of Rear Eng. cars was not only a tech. change but also the end of the careers of most (voluntarily) of those who came before. By 1966 all but a very few of the previous cadre of drivers had retired, by 1971 only a handfull was left. ( I was amazed, in rereading things I have read a thousand times before)at how many drivers either drove a just Indy, or at Indy and one or two of the paved mile tracks for the last two to five years of their USAC careers.
The lack of spectacle in the qualifying at Indy now seems to be more than a little because the one or two race,only, veterans are now gone. They leave a BIG gap.
I don't think USAC had any idea how much they were cutting out when they eliminated the dirt Champ Car races, and the drivers that picked and chose when and where to race, along with the races.

After rechecking, partly also thanks to Motorsport.com and its files, I noticed that some of the vets such as Arnie Knepper, Bud Tinglestad had excellant top five, or top ten results in the early road races, and these are drivers, who were really dirt track specialists.
As I said before, when USAC and CART and now IRL cut-loose the dirt tracks and EVERYTHING that comes with them, they cut loose the heart of what was once open wheel racing in the North America.

In the end, many of the top USAC names, including Adretti and Unser, went over to what became the Silver Crown series and still drove the dirt cars.(Al Unser said nothng in racing matches when a dirt car is "talking to you".)
By the early seventies all but the no.1 drivers of multi-car teams fromt he sixties had retired or drove only the Silver Crown cars and there was not a true second generation of drivers to take up between the Andrettis and Foyts, and the Mears and Rahaals.
The veterans who started in the late fifties or early sixties did not retire and the drivers who were the no.2 car drivers on the teams never go a chance to move up or simply moved over to the Siver Crown cars, especially after the, hiatus of road racing, and then when CART owners killed USAC control and used the drivers only they brought with them.
Bob
PS-If any of you can get the book I mentioned(I am at a library and cannot remember the name) you will see that open wheel road(and even oval) racing in North America had a tough time in late sixties. It was bounced around not because of lack of talent, but because of, tracks shutting down, or being cut out, and fan apathy.
With the opening of Texas, Michigan, Pocono and Ontario a new lease on life was breathed into OW racing. When CART did not cling to this new lease, even though it continued the new road races USAC had started, it signed its own death warrant.

[curtis spicer]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
http://www.circletrack.com/circletra...mage_large.jpg
Ken Petrie, of Parker, Colorado, the current USSS point leader in his #95 Precision Industries March-Chevrolet, and Greg Gorden, of Colorado Springs, Colorado, in his #37 Pikes Peak International Raceway-sponsored G-Force-Aurora .. in practice for the USSS Sandia Indy Car Shootout II at Sandia Motorsports Park, Albuquerque, NM. Ken went on to take his fourth victory of the season that evening in the #95.


http://www.circletrack.com/circletra...mage_large.jpg
Phil Erickson, of Phoenix, Arizona / Lake Tahoe, Nevada, in his #7 Erickson Companies Lola-Buick, at Pikes Peak International Raceway, Fountain, Colorado. Phil won the Dodge City Indy Car Showdown at Dodge City Raceway Park, Dodge City, Kansas and currently is second in the USSS Championship.

The Below is From the same article in CirleTrack, Not Current
Upcoming Events

USSS Indy Cars to Help Raise Relief Funds
USSS and NASA will race Sept. 28-30 to raise funds for the United Way September Relief Fund, the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation.

By Courtesy USSS, Pam Barker
Florissant, Colorado - The members of the United States Speedway Series and National Auto Sport Association extend their sympathy and prayers for those who have given their lives for America, to their families, and to all Americans at this difficult time.
In support, USSS and NASA will race September 28-30, 2001 to raise funds for the United Way September 11th Relief Fund, the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation.

The USSS Firebird Indy Car Grand Prix will go as scheduled at Firebird International Raceway in Phoenix and admission for all spectators will be free with a donation to the charities.

"The President has asked Americans to return to life and business as usual and the United States Speedway Series, working with the National Auto Sport Association, had planned to make this event a charitable fundraiser prior to these heinous acts of war," said Mike Lee, USSS Operations Manager.
"Funds are always needed for medical groups like the Organ Donor Network and the Arizona Kidney Foundation; but all the Indy car drivers and teams of the USSS also feel a strong need to demonstrate our support for the President, and for our fellow Americans in New York City and Washington, not only by helping to collect donations for the United Way Relief Fund, but by freely and fearlessly travelling to Phoenix to conduct our business, as usual."

The race will be run on FirebirdÃ*s 1.5-mile main track, in a return to road course racing for USSS after three oval events. It is Round Six of the eight-race inaugural season for the USSS Indy car Championship.
The event schedule includes practice on Friday and Saturday, with USSS Single-Car Qualifying at 3:00 pm Saturday. The USSS Firebird Indy Car Grand Prix will commence at 1:00 pm Sunday, September 30.
The USSS program for Indy cars and Champ cars will be a feature race event along with the NASA race program which includes Big Bore Production Based & GT Cars, Small Bore Production Based & GT Cars, Open Wheel Formula and Sports Racing Cars on the Firebird Main Track. The NASA Street car orientation program and High Performance Driving Event for Street Cars will be run on the Firebird West Track during the 3 day weekend.

Gates will open at 8:00 am daily and the public may make a donations to the Organ Donor Network, and the Arizona Kidney Foundation to gain free access to the grandstand and paddock areas.
USSS teams will also be contributing and collecting donations for the United Way September 11th Relief Fund. They will join NASA in continuing to raise funds for disaster aid at the remaining races of the season:

October 13-14 - Pikes Peak International - Colorado Springs, CO;
November 23-25 - Firebird International Raceway - Phoenix, AZ.

With thanks to the management and staff of FIREBIRD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY or contact (620) 268-0200
Held under auspices of NATIONAL AUTO SPORT ASSOCIATION


-----------------------------------------------------------

Curtis:
Here are a couple of pictures from an online cirsle track article. These cars should look familiar.
How many races did you drive in and what car were you driving?
Plus, what is it like to drive an Indy car around a 5/8 mile flat track?
I am sure it is an eye opener.
Bob (The guy whose posted LaCrosse race.)

[curtis spicer]

Bob,

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to you, I am very busy with other things. I appreciate you defending our "professional status" as drivers. I am sure that Johnny Unser, Buddy Lazier, (winner of the Indy 500,) and Jaques Lazier drove in our series for more reasons than fun. It was what Indylights, and atlantic should have been. Sure it was not the most professional series to look at, but I have driven barber saab, ice racing, karting, barber dodge, f1600, fmazda, f2000, atlantics, and lights, and found that I learned the most racing in AIS. The chassis is the real deal, and with the buick Indy V6 turbo, we have actually have posted faster times than CART!

I drove several cars mostly 90-96 Lola's with Buick V-6t's. And around a 5/8th you have to be smoooooth with the turbo, or else you learn what power o.s. is in a hurry! On such a track you are accelerating from 65-150mph twice a lap. (A real work out for your neck.)

Bill Tempero quickly saw the wrong direction that CART was going and founded the series on the principal that if you have talent and a few hundered thousand dollars, you could go racing in the "bigs." It is very easy to sit on the side af the track and have opinions, but he put his life into something that benefitted a lot of drivers. He, unlike CART, but talent first and money a distant second. In fact the weekend after my dad passed away while racing a motorcycle he put me into the Las Vegas race for free. He is that sort of guy. I feel that by protecting his series, I am protecting him.

For the people that are reading this and feel that the traditional ladder approach is better, look at Michael Valiente. He was a champion at every level and can't find a ride in CART. (He had a seat, but was out-bid by another driver.) I ask you, is it really a professional sport if you are paying to drive, (as are many of the current drivers.)

IRL started with good intentionas and are a lot closer to what racing should be, but I think to test all of the drivers talents, you should turn right as well.

Anyway keep well, and if people think that I was out there for the fun of it, they were right!

Curtis Spicer

[Bob Riebe]

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...hlight=239.260

I think those who remember what Indy car racing once was, will find this thread from Trackforum interesting.

I keep forgetting to get my guestimates in, next one I will remember.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

As there is no better thread to post this in, and I do not want to start another; does anyone here have any solid info on the current USSS and ASA Pro-500 series that seem to have sprung from the death of the AIS.

Neither series is in good health but they seem to be as well as CC, and maybe even IRL.
I did a google on them but the results are confusing and oddly spotty.
From what I can tell Sprint Car driver Ken Petrie, who won at the Copper Classic several times is big in the USSS and not just as a driver.
Info on the ASA races is, difficult, at best to decipher, but it seem they run at least at the St Johns Az. airport circuit 1.67 miles and Petrie has top time ever there, including hitting 208 mph on the straight.

I thought they died with the AIS but it seems not.
Bob

[Rob29]

Just found this thread which I had not noticed before. I wondered what had happened to those old Indycar series.Have some video of cars racing on a Mexican street circuit with straw bales! This was in early 90s.

[flatlander_48]

Originally Posted by Rob29

Just found this thread which I had not noticed before. I wondered what had happened to those old Indycar series.Have some video of cars racing on a Mexican street circuit with straw bales! This was in early 90s.

I always took the AIS to be a grassroots series where folks could run serious, high horsepower cars in a real racing situation. If one had greater aspirations, fine. If you didn't, that was also OK. I've seen some discounting of the series by folks, and obviously it's not the Bigs. But, it also isn't the Saturday night Demolition Derby either. It's not a trivial thing to strap into those cars, and I think people should let it go with that.