BTCC Crowds

[RickP:Clio51]

Ok folks I'd like your views...

I was racing at Assen at the weekend. The bill was an eclectic mix of local bike championships in the morning then 4 Clio-type demolition derbys in the afternoon:

35,000 PEOPLE SHOWED UP!

For those who don't know, Assen is in the absolute middle of nowhere and the weather was torrential rain from dawn to dusk.

I am interested on how you think the BTC could improve its crowd numbers back to the good old days but as a clue they did the following at Assen:

Rizla (yes I am sure they don't put tobacco in them either in Holland) stumped up sponsorship for the weekend so all the fans could apply for 2 FREE tickets including paddock passes.

Great idea, because then they get hooked by the buzz that is motor racing and come back (and pay) for later rounds.

Jos de Boss (Verstappen) showed up, stood on the pit wall and waved to the crowds and signed the odd autograph.

Damon or Nige could do this and attract a pretty decent number of people?

The Clio Cup (local style) gets 15 minutes of coverage DIRECTLY before the F1 Grand Prix on terrestrial television each race. Consequently, their trucks/hospitality units are better than anything you see at BTC meetings (yes, the little Clio championship) so they all invite 100-200 guests to each round!
Plus there are 4-5 soap stars/celebs in the 61 (yes 61) car field...

The track had TV cameras the whole way around (permanent ones) so all the races could be watched on television, as they happened from the safety of a dry awning, ensuring the weather didn't spoil it for the corporate guests.

What are your thoughts? Considering a paltry 15,000 people showed up at Croft for Britains premier package?

[touringlegend]

One answer.

More Touring Cars!

[Minardi fan]

Thing is, would you want a 35,000 strong crowd at a BTCC race? F1 is intimidating enough - the atmosphere at the BTCC however is wonderful.

[RickP:Clio51]

It wasn't intimidating in Holland, although the organisers were very upset as if it wasn't for the atrocious weather, they were expecting 80,000!!!
That might have been intimidating...

I think most of the tracks in the UK could cope with 35,000 and the increased crowd numbers would make it easier to get sponsors, therefore the fields would be bigger...

RickP

[Sodemo]

Well if i'm not mistaken the BTCC has had huge crowds in the past of around 30,000 people.

I thought there were around 40-50,000 that turned up for one of the Mansell - rounds in 98'?

Simple answer is just more cars, I haven't been this year at all, as I think the series is a bit of joke this year.
I'm still of the opinion that the support package needs sorting out as well, as last year the only thing that kept me going was the clios and fiestas which I think are the best.

I will probably start going again when the BTCT field gets a bit bigger.

[touringlegend]

I felt a bit like that too Sodemo, but after going to Knockhill I've started to really take notice of the Production guys, obviously that is where the entertainment is this year, 9 different winners so far this year I think, unless there's a big punch-up in the Vauxhall camp.
Now that would be worth seeing!

[Craig]

The BTC-P cars are definately the ones to watch... superb stuff, and the drivers are so friendly and approachable. It's a shame that the BCC don't feel likewise as they are doing the series a huge dis-service by allowing tv viewers such as Sodemo to believe that there is no racing to be had in the series.

Whilst i'm all for increased crowds and exposire for the series, let's hope it doesn't reach the stage that it did at Donny in 93... what an absolute nightmare - you didn't have room to breath, let alone view the track

Talking of beefing up the support package, I believe that this is all in hand for 2002. Whilst the Fiestas are not going to return - the series is being disbanded - there are a number of series which I have heard have a fair chance of a permanent place on the bill next year - such as the Junior FFord series, a new series for the BMW 116 (I mean the new Mini...), a new series for a new Honda model (forget which one) and the TVR Tuscans, amongst others. Rumoured for guest slots are the Mini Se7en ang Miglia series', Legends and Aston Martins.

[hunttheshunt]

More cars, lower prices, more attractions (like freebies), more friendly!

[Les]

I don't think it is going to get anywhere until it is advertised. Best race of the year and it's cut short on the box for tennis.
No signs at all on the A11 (Snet) or A1 (Croft) to say there was a race meeting on.
Two for one tickets are available now through EggSport - how many people even know that who go to meetings now?

It needs more visibility.

[redshoes]

Don't think there's an easy answer to this, and to be honest it's not strictly a touring car problem, more a problem with UK motorsports in general. Look at PowerTour or even the FIA GT meeting earlier this year, they were hardly queueing at dawn to get in. How often have you heard it said that the UK is the centre of the motorsport industry (look at how many F1/GT/WRC/Indy teams are based here or have cars/engines built here), yet the truth is things are far from rosy.

Ironically part of the problem is that we have too much motorsport. In Holand would be Clio drivers probably don't have too many other options. Here if you don't fancy Clios how about Fiestas, or Elises, or Ginettas, or GTs, or Marcoses, or TVRs, or Mini Seven, or Protons, Road Saloons, or any one of dozens of alternatives. And that's without looking at single seaters. It's something that's been debated in the National Series forum recently and not one poster argued that we need all these series.

TV and promotion in general is another real problem. You only have to look at last weekend's pathetic display by the BBC to realise that. It's the same story with the national press - how often to you see regular (non-F1) motorsports coverage outside of the specialist press. Problem is it's the classic catch-22 situation. Motorsports is still a minority sport so won't get mainstream coverage but needs the coverage in order to become mainstream. It's a sad state of affairs when John B&Q's antics (no offence John) get more column inches that the actual race.

One thing that has always amazed me is the lack of household name sponsors in any British motorsport. Look at NASCAR - Corn Flakes, McDonalds, Bud, Texaco, Kodak, or the DTM - Hasseroder, TV Speilfilm, ProMarkt, D2, then in the BTCC - Egg, B&Q, and that's about all. I'm sure most of that comes down to a lack of coverage. Sponsors want value for money and they just aren't going to get it.

As far as the BTCC is concerned the one thing that needs looking at is giving fans value for money, and that means more races. At some meetings this year the support package has been wafer-thin. If I had to stump up 25 quid plus petrol/food/etc out of my own pocket there would have been times I would think twice about travelling that distance. The counter argument here is that a football match or pop concert will cost you as much and there you'll be lucky to get 2 hours worth but when you add up the actual racing time there's not that much different.

So what's the answer...? How the hell would I know?

[Craig]

Think you're kinda mising the point on Team B&Q, Nigel... these 'antics' are exactly what we need to raise awareness of the series and make it seem a viable form of entertainment to the masses. At first glance to many motorsport may seem like a bunch of cars being driven around a track by anonamous drivers - somewhat like the M25 - but if they knew a little about the people in the cars; realised there were real people in there... suddenly there's a greater degree of interest to them...

[redshoes]

I total understand why B&Q are doing what they are, my point is that motorsport should be newsworthy on it's own without the need for such gimmicks.

[Craig]

I'm not meaning that it's good for B&Q - which obviously it is - i'm saying that it's good for motorsport and the BTCC in particular to build up the characters involved in it... whether that be John, or Jason Plato... it's what the sport should be trying to do - build names out of it's stars. Then people will take an interest in these people and the coverage of the sport will grow.

[touringlegend]

That's a good point on a football or pop concert redshoes. I try to persuade my whole family to go to race meetings, they say yes but you just know they're not that keen. They could be inside doing something in a warm enviroment or under cover, and you could go to a circuit and get absolutely soaked.

The gaps need to be filled with Support Races, and I'd love to see a Mini Series! A lot of the time I was at Knockhill was spent wandering about the circuit or paddock.

[Sodemo]

Oh no, don't get me wrong, im sure the Production races provide excellent entertainment, but I don't think the driving is of a perceived high enough quality to focus entirely upon.
I think of the production class as a step up from Clios, nothing more, it shouldn't be the main event.

The main event should be

A) spectacular to watch (ie FAST cars)

B) have a high(ish) standard of driving

and

C) still provide excellent entertainment (ie overtaking - but harder to accomplish than lower formulae)

I was sceptical about the BTCT cars, but they do look a lot better than I thought they would, I just wish we had a field of at least 18 cars.

[Radisichrox]

First of all, TV, radio, newspaper, and billboard advertisments are the key to attracting fans. It works in America and I see no reason as to why it can't work in the U.K.

Maybe try to have the btcc support the British GP again, or if there is a big race in another series, (I.E. ALMS, WRC...) you could support that. Make sure that there is plenty of advertisement for it.

Bring back some of the old guys! John Cleland, as far as I am concerned, is still racing and would be happy to come back. The only thing Nigel Mansell is doing now is driving a golf cart, bring him back! We already have Steve Soper and Tim Harvey, why can't some of the old guys come back for a few races. In fact, to fill up the gap that Touring Legend was talking about, why not start a class or series for the older legends of the series? Andy Rouse, Jeff Allam, Gabriele Tarquini, Will Hoy, Jo Winkelhock, Tiff Needell, Alain Menu , ect. If any of you went to the U.S. GP in September last year you might have seen the "Classic Grand Prix cars". If those people were able to do that, I'm sure that somebody must have preserved some old cars, like the BMW M3s, or the Vauxhall Cavaliers, or the old Ford Mondeos. A race for all the old guys at a couple of meetings a year would bring back some fans that were dissapointed by what they have seen in the past. To make the class exciting, there would be NO spoilers or wings on the cars, and make them have H pattern gearboxes. I like that!

[RickP:Clio51]

All good points guys. Particularly Nigels point about Clio drivers in Holland having limited other choice. As far as I know, they have no other choice whatsoever if they want to race a tin top (one-make?) outside of their touring car series.
Clearly UK motorsport is saturated to breaking point and the key would be the old favourite, slim down what is on offer and improve the coverage. I'd love to see one BTC highlights package, say 1 hour on a Friday evening with 30 mins of Tourers and 10 mins each of the support boys. Then you'd get the sponsors and then you'd get more cars and then you'd have more spectators.
But you guys are right, there is something not happening in terms of advertising of the meetings themselves.
IMHO
RickP

[Chris Y]

The points made about emphasizing the people inside the cars, is a very good one..

I've seen it a lot recently. People's interest in a race series is greatly improved if they know a driver, or know something about the drivers..

It's happened in the past. Look at Mansell Mania, or the when heros like John Cleland stalked the paddocks. Back then we had pretty good coverage, even from the BBC, but which came first? The decent coverage because of the celebrities, or did we get the celebs because of the coverage?

I think the new direction in motor racing should be (imho) to look after the spectators. Do whatever you can to get their interest and turn them from 'fans' into 'enthusiasts'.. Too many teams/competitors are too busy concentrating on their races and their battles to speak to or acknowledge the paying public..

This is where John B&Q is leading the race! Ordinary fans are getting closer to the team, the driver, the sport - than they have before. They get more hooked. They rave about it to their friends. Their friends come along to the next meeting.. They invite more friends.. See?

As far as I am concerned, the racing can pretty much stay as it is - iff possible. But the coverage, and the promotion, needs to be improved.

I've got the noose around my neck now. Someone kick away the soap box

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by Chris Y
They get more hooked. They rave about it to their friends. Their friends come along to the next meeting.. They invite more friends.. See?

And they keep growing and growing like a bunch of randy Rabbits.

[redshoes]

I'm totally against the idea of running a BTCC round at the GP, besides it will never happen. At a FIA meeting the FIA own all media rights. What does that mean? Well buy yourself a copy of the 1996 BTCCC season review video and fast forward to rounds 15 and 16. On second thoughts don't bother they aren't there. the second of those 2 races has never been show on TV and never will be. Want to fly a flag from the top of your team transporter, not at a GP you don't, not unless you are willing to pay the FIA a fee (£5000 per flag was mentioned). Even the doctor's car had to be hidden from public view between races as it had TOCA logos on it. Besides, surely we want to educate the public that there is motorsport outside of an Grand Prix.

Chris' point about personallities is very true, we've seen it on this forum many times in recent years. 18 months ago Rick was just another faceless driver, now he's somebody we support. Same this year with Paul O'Neill, John B&Q, Annie Templeton, Tom Boardman, Hyla Breese, etc, etc. Even ChrisY himself has become something of a 'celeb' with people here going to meetings just because he is racing.

[Les]

I've said it loads of time - forget the car and concentrate on the driver.
You get so much more out of a meeting - I mean look at this weekend - one of my mates won (Jim Edwards), well two actually as we support Mark Fullalove as well and had Hyla second. The thrill you get when Jim, or Rick last year, crosses that finishing line - nearly as good as being out there in the car yourself.

I see people wandering around the paddock just looking at cars itching to know more about them. They are asking themselves how fast do they go, what size engine they have got and half the time there is no-one around to answer them or worse still they are ignored.
I can remember vidily the first ever driver who spoke to me (properly - not just an autograph). it was Simon Hill in the spiders at Brands Hatch. Eddie and I were wandering about and I said to Ed - how the dickens do you get in it (no doors). Simon was there and showed us and then spent time with us explaining about all the knobs and switches.
Now the first time I met Plato, Muller,Menu etc is a blur - they don't talk with you - they talk at you.
The drivers usually have a lot of time on their hands - they should promote their series. I have to say the only Lotus boy you see around is Hyla - the rest are definitly 'arrive and drive' (and bog off home!).

[fatbloke]

Shouts at top of voice...

"wooo-ooo... Les! Excuse me, come back, you dropped something."

"There you go... what is it ?"

"Don't worry, it's only a name"

[hunttheshunt]

British Motorsport beneath the pinnacle (BTCC, Brit GT, F3) is totally sturated-you only have to look at what happened to all the single seater series at the end of '99! Apart from FFord and FRenault, they all had to be merged becuase they were producing nothing more than 6 or 7 cars!

[Radisichrox]

Redshoes and Chris Y are right. No, exactly right.

[Stephen Green]

Ok, my turn...

First of all you have to get the drivers to acknowledge the crowds when going round on the rediculous TOCA trailor. So many time they stand there looking as if they have just lost their dearest friend rather than look happy and glad to be at such a prestigeous event. Look at the way CART drivers have to behave for the fans!

At the risk of repeating points I have made in other forums, you need to reduce the time spent practicing and increase the racing time. Either by having two races or, by making the races a little longer (I prefer the two race idea personally).

Family tickets. How are a family supposed to afford to go to a BTCC meeting? Why not have a ticket that costs say £30 or £40 but for that, you could get two adults and up to 4 chilren into the circuit?

Local Radio. Most circuits are withing the broadcasting area of one or two local radio stations who are always looking for prizes to give away on their silly quiz's. For every so many you give out you are bound top sell a few more. The circuit owners keep 100% of the gate money so the more people there the more they make, simple innit?

Lastly, and by no means least, you simply cannot have the feature series with a grid of 6 or 7 cars. It's taking the p*ss and people will (and are) voting with their wallets.

Most of the circuits that TOCA visit can easily accomodate 30,000+ poeple without it causing problems. In its heyday BTCC had crowds of over 40,000 at Brands Hatch on the Indy circuit. If the BBC were to pull their finger from their rear ends and get on with some decent coverage, not only the Touring Cars but the support races, then manufacturers would come back I'm sure.