Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[MGDavid]

....and nobody bid on it/them? are they all fakes then, or is everyone's drive/garage as full as mine is?

[Peter Mallett]

For one thing it had the wrong spoiler for a Group 1 car. However as Ken pointed out it had some anomolies that didn't add up.

That said if its got most of the necessary bits it would be a good basis for a pre 83 car. But £6k + with the prospect of another 10 to recommission it would put me off.

[Chris Griffin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

...That said if its got most of the necessary bits it would be a good basis for a pre 83 car. But £6k + with the prospect of another 10 to recommission it would put me off.

I quite agree Peter. You could go and buy Chris Bright's well sorted GP1 SD1 now for about £11K. OK no heritage but a very nicely prepped example.

http://www.classictouringcars.com/adverts/sales.asp

[chrisgram]

Is it possible that this is a TWR-
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1467...44672173OaIViC

[chrisgram]

Here's an interesting one too. Not centre lock wheels....see 1/2 way down page.
http://www.auslot.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3729

[KA]

Originally Posted by chrisgram

Here's an interesting one too. Not centre lock wheels....see 1/2 way down page.
http://www.auslot.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3729

That's a nice shot of one of the white Mobil 1 cars after Bathurst 84...

http://www.auslot.com/forums/index.p...ndpost&p=34489

[KA]

Originally Posted by chrisgram

Is it possible that this is a TWR-
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1467...44672173OaIViC

Right back at the beginning of the thread, there's a mention of one of the cars ending up in Spain or Portugal. Wonder if this is it....?

[chunterer]

Well if it's a genuine car, the white livery with Red wheels suggests it could be a 1986 Herbie Clips/Pacific backed car?

Dave Carvell's 1987 mount (004) was in this colour scheme too and when it was sold on in 1988 I think there's a shot of it at Spa or somewhere in the same colours?

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Well if it's a genuine car, the white livery with Red wheels suggests it could be a 1986 Herbie Clips/Pacific backed car?

Dave Carvell's 1987 mount (004) was in this colour scheme too and when it was sold on in 1988 I think there's a shot of it at Spa or somewhere in the same colours?

Without going back and looking, I think it was suggested the car originally sold to Kaj Bornebusch in Sweden may have more recently gone to Spain or Portugal...?

[chunterer]

Yes, you're right KA, could be that one - think Kaj's was one of the '85/86 Pacific/Herbie Clips cars that later won the TT before going on to him? Gotta get the chassis number!!!

Dave Carvells was a Sanyo and then Bathurst car and not one of the above according to the archive we've built up.

[MG Rover Sport]

The Marlboro Group 1 car was listed again on ebay, and the auction finished yesterday with the top bid of £4,659 although the reserve was not met!

[chrisgram]

Not sure where were are at with the summary but here is one which was racing in 2007 (Tim Morley) http://www.ukv8.com/?2007
See bottom of page. Perhaps we need an update to avoid duplication?

[Chris Griffin]

From a few pages back..."020- last car built 1986 Bastos/South Pacific(?) car
later owned by Kevin Eaton, then Arthur Carter collection
Restored by Ken Clarke for unnamed Surrey owner (same one who owned 017 before Charles Williams?)" AKA Tim Morley

[MG Rover Sport]

Well done Chris - knew it was there somewhere!

020 also appeared at the 2006 Rover SD1 Club National Meeting on 6 August at Gaydon, along with Brian Kershaw's 014. There's an online video of them burbling around the perimeter roads HERE if anyone's interested?

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

The Marlboro Group 1 car was listed again on ebay, and the auction finished yesterday with the top bid of £4,659 although the reserve was not met!

I have managed to do a deal with Geert and bought the car, will be coming back to Northern Ireland in the next few weeks. When I get to identify the car a little more accurately I will post, am probably going to need all the help I can get.

[MG Rover Sport]

Awesome news 'corliss' - so glad the car is coming back to this neck of the woods, and I wish you well with the project. Please do keep us informed of what you discover over the coming days, weeks, months...

So what are your plans for the car - a complete restoration, followed by some competition?

Was it just the one car you bought from Geert, ie the one listed on ebay? Apparently he owns (owned?) another ex-TWR Rover touring car and a standard road car.

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Awesome news 'corliss' - so glad the car is coming back to this neck of the woods, and I wish you well with the project. Please do keep us informed of what you discover over the coming days, weeks, months...

So what are your plans for the car - a complete restoration, followed by some competition?

Was it just the one car you bought from Geert, ie the one listed on ebay? Apparently he owns (owned?) another ex-TWR Rover touring car and a standard road car.

My initial plan is to get the car back to original spec assuming I can find out enough information, the car appears to have a STD engine in, but what gearbox is still a mystery, having studied the photo`s again the rear axle/suspension could easily be from a road car, it does not have the original exhaust system, I dont know how modified the Grp1 cars were. I can give Ken Tomlinson a call Re: the gearbox and axle but who can tell me what induction did the engines have, I suspect 4 Webers on a cross over manifold, if I build it up to a later spec with either single or twin plenum injection am I destroying its heritage?? The bodywork is a mixture of early Grp1 & later GrpA. Should the car remain in Marlboro livery, or revert to Sanyo? If anyone has any info PLEASE get in touch.
As a sideline I used to race a vitesse in Australia in the mid 80`s and brought the car back to the UK in 1990, I was an ex factory engineer based in Melbourne, and the car ran a variety of engine sizes, on return to UK I found a TWR engine, No: 86/005, a genuine twin plenum engine, divorced lifter oil gallery block, cosworth pop-top pistons etc indicating a very late engine, reputedly from an `86 Spa car. The car was sold to a D Redpath who raced it in the Falken road going series and has never been heard of since. The shell was NOT a factory (TWR) shell, but was a solid roof well preped shell. Who has that engine now?? it also had a straight cut C/R LT75 box with 5th gear sheared off, according to Ken T one of only 13 made.
I guess i might start a fresh topic on the "oddball" Vitesses I.E. French-Belgium-German etc What were their specs, how different to the Home cars, or have I made a God Awful Mistake buying this one? Comments welcomed. Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Cheers for the feedback Skip.

Regarding livery - I suppose that is totally down to your own preference. When anyone rebuilds an ex-competition car, I suppose they have the right to choose what to - ie, exactly as it finished a certain successful event, or victorious season. As yours ran in at least two liveries that we know of, the I suppose choice is yours. From a UK point of view, I'd have said the Sanyo would be the automatic choice in my mind. You might stand more chance getting invited to the Goodwood Festival of Speed if it was Sanyo rather than Marlboro livery - assuming that's something you'd be interested in that is.

I'm sure Ken Tomlinson would be able to help re specification or possibly previous identity clues. Why not also try Ken Clarke - an ex-TWR guy who has contributed to this thread with wise observations / recollections on more than one occasion.

Does Geert have any previous owner details that you could try tracing back through?

I think there is also a thread on here somewhere on ex-Sanyo Rover SD1s?

Did you find anything out about Geert's other race SD1 or his road car?

Good luck.

[KA]

It's certainly going to be an interesting challenge.

Just a fairly random thought- thinking back to the previous page, it was posted that Geert acquired it from a French owner who'd bought it as the 85 Schlesser car, which it apparently isn't.

Ken Clarke described it as maybe a Group 1 car, so could it be an early chassis (either an ex-Sanyo car or the ex-Metge car) car that after being raced in France was subsequently adapted and given a cosmetic update for use as a display car or similar, which might go some way to explaining some of the odd features Skip commented on- the mixture of Gp1/GpA bodywork, possibly standard engine, wrong exhaust etc?

[corliss]

Originally Posted by KA

It's certainly going to be an interesting challenge.

Just a fairly random thought- thinking back to the previous page, it was posted that Geert acquired it from a French owner who'd bought it as the 85 Schlesser car, which it apparently isn't.

Ken Clarke described it as maybe a Group 1 car, so could it be an early chassis (either an ex-Sanyo car or the ex-Metge car) car that after being raced in France was subsequently adapted and given a cosmetic update for use as a display car or similar, which might go some way to explaining some of the odd features Skip commented on- the mixture of Gp1/GpA bodywork, possibly standard engine, wrong exhaust etc?

Are there any photo`s available of any of the Marlboro cars anywhere? This one seems to have stickers in different places to any I have seen, how many years did the Rovers run in the French championship? Does anyone recollect how many Rovers did run in that championship.
Re the earlier question on the "Peanut Slab" cars in Wellington, one car was definately severely damaged in a first corner shunt, rear ended by a Holden, splitting the fuel tank, the car did get back to the pits but the boot area was awash with fuel. If I recall correctly the cars also raced, I think, at Puckehoe the following week (or 2) do not think they fared too well though as I remember a quote from Dick Johnson (Falcon) " the walkinshaw cars sounded a million dollars but looked like **** after the race" Skip

[KA]

There's a pic of a French Marlboro car on display at Silverstone (think at the TT) somewhere back in this thread, and I've seen a couple around on the web, just can't think where....

[KA]

Google image search strikes again! Just looking for pics of the Marboro cars and found this- http://scgtclassic.com.sapo.pt/Sintr..._Cabanelas.htm

I don't read Portuguese, but a Google translation comes up with a report of a race at Estoril in July 1983, including 2 Rovers- one for Pedro Meireles, and the other for Jose Peres- described in a photo caption as an ex-Rene Metge car

Looking more closely at the pics, there's a shot which shows the two Rovers
http://scgtclassic.com.sapo.pt/Cabanelas1.jpg

That looks a lot like a Marlboro car in the background behind the Toyota Starlet and the wayward Capri... If we assume the red car in the foreground is Meireles, then logically the Marlboro-coloured car must be Peres in an ex-Metge French championship car...?

The 'ex-Metge' reference is from the caption to this pic, showing Peres avoiding the crashed BMW 528- again, that looks like a rear view of a Marlboro car exiting stage left....(above the Starlet)
http://scgtclassic.com.sapo.pt/Cabanelas7.jpg

[KA]

Originally Posted by corliss

Are there any photo`s available of any of the Marlboro cars anywhere? This one seems to have stickers in different places to any I have seen, how many years did the Rovers run in the French championship? Does anyone recollect how many Rovers did run in that championship.

Think the Rover programme in France ran for 3 or 4 seasons- drivers included Metge, Schlesser and Duez, and I think a page or two back someone mentioned at least one car being sold on to a privateer in France

There's a pic on here, but I'm sure I've seen better somewhere
http://www.caradisiac.com/php/actu_e...252_rover4.php

[ianpearson]

There are some TWR Rover SD1 center lock hubs & nuts on racecarsdirect if anyone is interested

[KA]

More pics of the Portuguese Pedro Meireles car- Google tracked these links down on a Portuguese forum.... these pics are apparently from 1986

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?i...eirelesza8.jpg

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...7&d=1141651506

On another forum, this is apparently a recent pic of the car in it's current state- described as ex-TWR, and apparently for sale about a year ago.

If it's the same car as in the shots of the 1983 Estoril race a few posts back, and it is ex-TWR, then presumably another early (ex-Group 1?) car....?

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...8&d=1141651506