Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts - Page 6

Chris Griffin · 18 Dec 2006, 11:37 (Ref:1793411)

I agree Chunters. Great Livery! The ironic thing about that shot is that the assembly area behind is full of Classic Saloon Car Club (now CTCRC) pre 57 or 66 racers due to go out!

grouparover · 18 Dec 2006, 12:13 (Ref:1793450)

Hi Guys,
My name is Paul Davis and i live in Sydney Australia.
I purchased Tim Slackos rover in Perth about 3 years ago. I wanted to set the record straight on this car, it was originally one of the Martin Thomas Group 1 cars, Andy Rouse purchased it and converted it to Group A (giving it chassis number ARE004 GAR)for Charles Sawyer Hoare at the end of 1982,Charles ran it for 2 years in the U.k (it was red in colour and had Esso and the daily mirror sponsorship).Tim slacko purchased it for $27,000(AUD)from Andy Rouse and shipped it back to Australia in early 1985.It ran several races red,with different sponsors at each event.
Bathurst 1985 it ran white exterior and red interior.
Tim completely stripped it after bathurst 1985.
He relocated the fuel fillers (from internal to the rear guards)fitted a switch panel (tower)to the passanger side of the car (same as TWR cars) converted it to twin plenumn,fitted the water cooled brakes etc.
To my knowledge most of the parts are Group 1 (struts, diff)or group A (everything else).He changed the colour again, to Pink(everywhere,inside,outside and underneath!)He said he knew he wouldnt be the fastest car at Bathurst,but everyone would remember the car,how true is that!
I purchased the car from 2 guys in Perth who had purchased it from Tim.They ran only a handful of races in Perth and stored it for more than 10 years.
It is currently under a full restoration to is 1986 bathurst
specification.
The second 1986 rover(Donnelly and Harrex)was built in Australia by simon Harrex.
It was purchased by Tom Hutchinson in south Australia and the mechanical componants were used to build his TR8 Marque Spotrs Car in the 1990s.
The shell now resides in sydney.

I believe Chassis no:5 was part of the Arthur Carter collection,i believe its history is Eddy Joosen Barclays car(1983)
Then to J Louis Slesser as a Marlboro car in france then back to U.k driven by Tim Harvey ,Purchased by Arthur Carter.

Many Thanks
Paul Davis

**John Turner** · 18 Dec 2006, 13:00 (Ref:1793495)

Welcome, Paul; a great informative first post!

(Chunty, I'll copy these posts over to the archive, in due course!)

ken clarke · 18 Dec 2006, 14:06 (Ref:1793573)

Hi all, have just read your thread, all of it. What is it they say, 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story', well the stories are good, scale model cars, big engines?????? You are way off the mark. Still it makes interesting reading, it is like the story I heard once about an alleged engine change that occurred during Spa practice in '85-------- in 20 minutes--------- I think not!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Clarke.

**John Turner** · 18 Dec 2006, 14:46 (Ref:1793608)

Well Ken, there are 10 pages here with over 140 posts and the bits you have chosen to comment upon represent but a small part. Since we are anxious to establish the 'true' histories of these cars, and since there is a clear indication from your post that you know something of this subject, please contribute what you know.

**chunterer** · 18 Dec 2006, 15:20 (Ref:1793696)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grouparover

Hi Guys,
I purchased Tim Slackos rover in Perth about 3 years ago. I wanted to set the record straight on this car, it was originally one of the Martin Thomas Group 1 cars, Andy Rouse purchased it and converted it to Group A (giving it chassis number ARE004 GAR)for Charles Sawyer Hoare at the end of 1982,Charles ran it for 2 years in the U.k (it was red in colour and had Esso and the daily mirror sponsorship).
I believe Chassis no:5 was part of the Arthur Carter collection,i believe its history is Eddy Joosen Barclays car(1983)
Then to J Louis Slesser as a Marlboro car in france then back to U.k driven by Tim Harvey ,Purchased by Arthur Carter.

Many Thanks
Paul Davis

Top contribution Paul!

I've got a pic of the REAR end of the Slako car when it was still in CS-H's hands, in the pit garages for the Silverstone TT in 1984. The livery was one of the prettiest of the lot but I think they struggled to get the car running properly that year. It failed to qualify for the TT IIRC. I'll post that pic on here one day i'm sure, not that it's particularly revealing!

BTW Paul, this French (ex Joosen) TWR car can't be the one that ended up in Tim Harvey's hands as he drove the ex Rouse ICS car (not TWR built) A Bloke called Bill Griffin got hold of an ex French Marlboro car and ran it in the odd BTCC and modsaloon races in 1987 though, so perhaps this is the car your thinking of which has proven very 'elusive' in people's memories so far!!

However if it was Chassis 5 but built in 1983, that knackers my proposed chassis sequencing again as I thought 004 (later Dave Carvell's and according to him an ex Sanyo BTCC and Bathurst Mobil car) and 005 probably weren't built until 1984?!

AAAARRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Help!!

Thus leads me neatly to the following quote!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken clarke

Hi all, have just read your thread, all of it. What is it they say, 'never let the truth get in the way of a good story', well the stories are good, scale model cars, big engines?????? You are way off the mark. Still it makes interesting reading, it is like the story I heard once about an alleged engine change that occurred during Spa practice in '85-------- in 20 minutes--------- I think not!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Clarke.

Ken good to finally have you on here posting - as JT says come on 'cough up' and give us a hand with some info!! BTW we ain't looking to rumble anyone, just fascinated by these ace cars and how many there were!!

**chunterer** · 18 Dec 2006, 15:59 (Ref:1793730)

Ken you aren't one of these guys with Steve Soper (on the right) by any chance are you?

TWR paddock tent Thruxton May 1984.

terence · 18 Dec 2006, 19:11 (Ref:1793902)

The Arthur Carter car was most definetly TWR built.

ken clarke · 18 Dec 2006, 19:40 (Ref:1793928)

I will put my thinking cap on & try to remember. It is over 20 years ago. No I am not in that picture at Thruxton. The short blond lad was John Simmonds I think his surname was, the guy on the left front was Herve Marechal (French) & going by the hairstyle the guy behind John was Brian Robertson, known as B A.

More later.

Ken.

KA · 18 Dec 2006, 22:36 (Ref:1794102)

Mentioned this several pages back, but finally dug the pics out again. Taken at a Brands Thundersaloon race in the early 90's- definitely looks like a Group A Rover, but which one?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75026346@N00/326497100/

KA · 18 Dec 2006, 22:51 (Ref:1794117)

Couldn't attach the pic for some reason, but the link should work...

My first thought was that it's the ex-Dennis Leech/Nick Humphrey car during John (from memory?) Quartermaine's ownership, as Adam mentioned a couple of pages back- can Adam or anyone else confirm or deny that?- I seem to have lost the programme for that particular Brands meeting, so can't even suggest a date beyond early 90's....

ken clarke · 19 Dec 2006, 09:08 (Ref:1794363)

I beleive this is an '89 Modsaloon race at Brands. The car is Chassis no 20, the last Group 'A' Rover SD1 built, being driven I beleive by Kevin ------ from Leicester. After this it was bought by Arthur Carter for his collection, (along with Chassis no 5), where it sat until it was bought in January 2005 by a businessman from Surrey who at that time owned the car now owned by Charles Williams, which I rebuilt 2004/5 which started life as chassis no 17, won the TT @ Silverstone in '85, then won Nogaro, then was wrecked at Zolder, first corner, first lap by Uncle Tom. Chassis no 20 has now been rebuilt by myself & is used for track days & shows.

More later.

KA · 19 Dec 2006, 10:31 (Ref:1794449)

Kevin Eaton by any chance? the guy who briefly ran the ex-Graham Goode Nissan Bluebird turbo in the BTCC in 87?

It certainly can't be any earlier than 89 as the first time I went to Brands was after I moved to Kent in the spring of that year.

The rest of the set of pics it came from suggest a Thundersaloon rather than Modsaloon race as several well-known Thundersaloons- (Stars & Stripes Manta, Rod Birley's Starion, Jim Mensley's Honda Legend, the Vauxhall Senator etc) feature, although none of them in the same shot as the Rover, so there's no reason the Rover pics can't have got mixed up with these over the last 17 or so years since I took them- or maybe Modsaloons ran at the same meeting? Without the programme to confirm the date it's difficult to say. It was definitely a full GP circuit meeting, as some of the pics were taken out there, rather than at Druids

Another pic

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...n/photostream/

Thanks for filling in the car's history.

**chunterer** · 19 Dec 2006, 10:52 (Ref:1794493)

Ken thanks for beginning to add some much needed expertise into the equation, look forward to more as the memories start to flow!!

KA thanks also for your continued seeking of info and filling in gaps.

That pic you've posted is interesting and as it's the last chassis built then there's a lot to unravel with previous cars. I have to say from first glance it looks like the Dennis Leech car he ran in 1988, re-sprayed? Certainly has the same style of wheels. so did Dennis run the last ever TWR chassis!!!???

The no. 5 (allegedly the Barclay 1983 Vitesse that both Paul and Ken refer to must have carried on into '84 as the sister SanyoBTCC/Mobil Bathurst car to 004, Dave Carvell's right.

Unless of course 5 cars were built in 1983 and 2 or 3 of them continued into 1984 and beyond and the car that ended up in Dave Carvell's hands in 1987actually began it's life as a Sanyo car in 1983, not 1984.

Although as Ken refers to if certain cars were rubuilt and then assumed a new chassis identity we've really got our work cut out

KA · 19 Dec 2006, 11:08 (Ref:1794514)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ken thanks for beginning to add some much needed expertise into the equation, look forward to more as the memories start to flow!!

KA thanks also for your continued seeking of info and filling in gaps.

That pic you've posted is interesting and as it's the last chassis built then there's a lot to unravel with previous cars. I have to say from first glance it looks like the Dennis Leech car he ran in 1988, re-sprayed? Certainly has the same style of wheels. so did Dennis run the last ever TWR chassis!!!???

I've got one more pic of that car at the same meeting, which I'll post later once I've had time to scan it.

I've got some more Rover pics around, although most of them are pretty poor quality. Unfortunately I didn't take many pics before about 1988/9, but should have some shots of Chatfield's ex TWR car at Silverstone and Donington (but can't find them right now...) and some 85/86 TT pics, although most of those are probably not worth posting. Know I've got a few shots of the Derek Hales modsaloon in the early 90's somewhere- didn't you, or someone, suggest that was an ex-Group A car?

VIVA GT · 19 Dec 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1794525)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Kevin Eaton by any chance? the guy who briefly ran the ex-Graham Goode Nissan Bluebird turbo in the BTCC in 87?

Great to see this thread resurrected!
Sorry to put a spanner in the works, but I'm 99.9% sure that Kevin Eaton's Rover only appeared in Bastos type livery. It also had the spoked wheels, so I don't think this could be him.

Keep it going folks, great nostalgia...

**chunterer** · 19 Dec 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1794526)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Unfortunately I didn't take many pics before about 1988/9, but should have some shots of Chatfield's ex TWR car at Silverstone and Donington (but can't find them right now...) and some 85/86 TT pics, although most of those are probably not worth posting. Know I've got a few shots of the Derek Hales modsaloon in the early 90's somewhere- didn't you, or someone, suggest that was an ex-Group A car?

Is the Chatfield car you refer to the one I posted earlier at Bham or did he have more?!!!

I think the Derek Hales car (now Nigel Garrett's) was orginally tje 1984 title winning Rouse ICS car latterly raced by Peter Hall 85/86 and Tim Harvey in Istel colours in 1987...

KA · 19 Dec 2006, 11:40 (Ref:1794550)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Is the Chatfield car you refer to the one I posted earlier at Bham or did he have more?!!!

God only knows- it's in basic Bastos colours, that's all I can remember....

Quote:

I think the Derek Hales car (now Nigel Garrett's) was orginally tje 1984 title winning Rouse ICS car latterly raced by Peter Hall 85/86 and Tim Harvey in Istel colours in 1987...

Makes sense- the pics I've got show it in a paintjob that looks remarkably like the white/blue stripes Istel scheme with new signwriting...

**chunterer** · 19 Dec 2006, 16:54 (Ref:1794884)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Great to see this thread resurrected!
Sorry to put a spanner in the works, but I'm 99.9% sure that Kevin Eaton's Rover only appeared in Bastos type livery. It also had the spoked wheels, so I don't think this could be him.

Keep it going folks, great nostalgia...

Yeah i'm sure you reckoned earlier that Kevin latterly had the car that B Chatfield ran for a bit illustrated in one of my earlier posts?

grouparover · 20 Dec 2006, 10:37 (Ref:1795601)

Hi guys,
The chassis numbers of the cars that ran bathurst in 1984 was no:4,this was rebuilt for that particular race and a new car with chassis no :11. These cars went back to the U.k after the race.I believe Ian Lines ownes/owned one of these cars(car number 61,Allam/Hahne car),in 1985 he purchased the Austin Rover Middle East rally team complete with 3 cars ( group II SD1s) and enough spares to run these.He sold off two of cars and kept a Ex Pond/Arthur car.
In 1986 he smashed the pond car, requiring a new shell.
TWR gave him a Ex Bastos shell on the condition he purchased the Bathurst Mobil car and Ponds Ex Computervision rally car.
Just a small correction from my last post,chassis no:5 was not driven last by Tim Harvey,it was Gerry Marshall,i think he purchased from TWR after they had relegated it to a test car,gerrys last race was 7/6/1987.
Arthur Carter purchased it sometime after that.
It now resides in New Zealand with chassis no:18(Alan Scott,TWR engine builder) and is owned buy Allan Dieppe.

**chunterer** · 20 Dec 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1795745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grouparover

Hi guys,
The chassis numbers of the cars that ran bathurst in 1984 was no:4,this was rebuilt for that particular race and a new car with chassis no :11. These cars went back to the U.k after the race.I believe Ian Lines ownes/owned one of these cars(car number 61,Allam/Hahne car).
Just a small correction from my last post,chassis no:5 was not driven last by Tim Harvey,it was Gerry Marshall,i think he purchased from TWR after they had relegated it to a test car,gerrys last race was 7/6/1987.
Arthur Carter purchased it sometime after that.
It now resides in New Zealand with chassis no:18(Alan Scott,TWR engine builder) and is owned buy Allan Dieppe.

Good info!

So no 4's history is pretty much confirmed now. Last known action was BTCC 1987 (D Carvell) and then sold to a Belgian outfit, who also bought another chassis??? only trouble is 004 (or both) disappeared sometime in 1988 after a shunt we think?

So by my reckoning we also now also know something about no's 005, 014, 017, 018, 019 and 020 (the white car illustrated earlier?)

Another question now surely is if the Bathurst '84 cars were 004 (repainted ex Sanyo) and 011 (fresh car) what were, and what happened to 006, 007, 008, 009 and 010 which must have been built in 1983-84!

At least we've narrowed some gaps in the history and we're starting to get somewhere. I think Mr Clarke will also be able to plug some gaps as we continue further as well.

NB, I'm also seriously beginning to think that 001, 002 and possibly an 003 (French ST?) may well have been the 1982 Group 1 3500's. The first of the Group A's in 1983 may then have been 004, 005 and 006 (2 Sanyo's and 1 Heplolite) which logically could then have continued into 1984 as works BTCC cars (2 Sanyo and 1 Fleet).

VIVA GT · 20 Dec 2006, 13:24 (Ref:1795748)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yeah i'm sure you reckoned earlier that Kevin latterly had the car that B Chatfield ran for a bit illustrated in one of my earlier posts?

To be honest (and I am working on shaky memory here!), I'm sure that Kevin Eaton & Brian Chatfield both owned 'BASTOS' Rovers at the same time, obviously meaning two cars (although Kevin maybe did actually buy his car from Brian... The plot thickens!).

d-b · 21 Dec 2006, 11:51 (Ref:1796702)

hi there

if you look deeper into the FLICKR website mentioned above and look in motorsport for something calles SKOPE you will find a pic of Bastos no 7 racing with Armin Hahne etc signwritten on it

any help?

db

**chunterer** · 4 Jan 2007, 09:56 (Ref:1805900)

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-b

hi there

if you look deeper into the FLICKR website mentioned above and look in motorsport for something calles SKOPE you will find a pic of Bastos no 7 racing with Armin Hahne etc signwritten on it

any help?

db

Thanks db, sorry for the delay in replying. I believe this is the car that chrisgram has reminded us about, earlier in the thread located in New Zealand - Chassis number 018.

There was some discussion about an Arthur Carter owned car possibly no 005 that was raced in France (as a Marlboro car) and could be the one that Bill Griffin ran for a time in 1987. I guess it was resprayed after that?

This is the Schlesser or Rene Metge Supertourisme 'Marlboro' car on show at the 1985 TT. Is this the same car?

Note, it's got the deeper front splitter or airdam which wasn't homolgated for Group A until 1986 IIRC, but had been run on the French car first.

MGDavid · 5 Jan 2007, 21:34 (Ref:1807773)

if this was mentioned earlier in this long thread, mod pls feel free to delete...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPehfYITgJI&NR

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