Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16 Mar 2018, 02:55 (Ref:3808269)   #1156
TheMightyM
Veteran
 
TheMightyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location:
Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,217
TheMightyM has a real shot at the podium!TheMightyM has a real shot at the podium!TheMightyM has a real shot at the podium!TheMightyM has a real shot at the podium!
Are there real logistical issues in staging a 1,500 mile race right after a 12 hour race by a different series? Yes.

Are there likely to be marketing issues? Yes — neither series can come across as the costar here.

Does it come as a particular surprise that an ACO Sebring 2019 race might not happen? No. At best, having both IMSA and the ACO at Sebring is a kind of crazy stop-gap solution and not something that is sustainable long-term. Most people get this — the only question is when the split comes and how much finger-pointing we will see.
TheMightyM is offline  
__________________
“Sometimes there’s no poison like a dream.” — Tanya Donelly
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 03:36 (Ref:3808273)   #1157
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyM View Post
Are there real logistical issues in staging a 1,500 mile race right after a 12 hour race by a different series? Yes.

Are there likely to be marketing issues? Yes — neither series can come across as the costar here.

Does it come as a particular surprise that an ACO Sebring 2019 race might not happen? No. At best, having both IMSA and the ACO at Sebring is a kind of crazy stop-gap solution and not something that is sustainable long-term. Most people get this — the only question is when the split comes and how much finger-pointing we will see.
The first point is an easy workaround, nothing's been written to stone (there are no specific regulations for that event yet) that they 100% have to start it at midnight or else the world collapses... if it's problematic they can easily just shift the start time for hour or two or three later.

For costar "issue", they could've - and still could if they wanted - market the event as "Twin 12 Hours of Sebring" or whatever, or integrated the two events into one* as originally inquired by the ACO, but it was IMSA that first started going on about "we want to save the prestige of Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring" etc. That's just the same sort of mentality that destroyed the 2012 race, both sides not listening to each other but acting arrogant about their own product, unlike in 2010 and 2011 for the ILMC.

I know what the reply here is going to be, that IMSA is already doing ACO "free favor" by letting them be there in the first place, but you don't think ACO is not doing the same already elsewhere?

* It's laughable that certain IMSA teams/OEMs/drivers would like to get top billing free-at-charge at Le Mans, but at Sebring it's definite no-no that LMP1 would be there ahead of them. I guess it goes just one way around

Last edited by Chiana; 16 Mar 2018 at 03:44.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 04:24 (Ref:3808274)   #1158
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,117
TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!
My bet is it goes forward even though there's naysayers. Maybe there's some issues to handle, but it's not going to be impossible. We'll see around this time next year!
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 04:32 (Ref:3808275)   #1159
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I don't have doubts for 2019, but I do some for 2020 and forward, particularly if the LMP unification talks collapse again. Anyway, I'm glad they are going there next year because they definitely deserve it.

And most of all it's a relief from the FIA/ACO bureaucratic side that we don't have to hear things like this anymore:

Gerard Neveu 2014
“We know that in the United States there’s not a lot of options for us and for the style of racing we have,” he said. “Historically you can say Sebring, Petit Le Mans and Laguna Seca were the logical places to welcome endurance races. But we know that it’s technically impossible [now].
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 13:27 (Ref:3808326)   #1160
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,880
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
The ACO could race anywhere in the US for a North American round if they give up on running almost exclusively on Grade 1 tracks, or even a place like Montreal. I myself see the twin Sebring event as like the first WEC race at Sebring that was a combined ALMS round, basically a stop gap until something more permanent can be worked out.

After all, the ACO placed themselves in this position when both they and IMSA ditched races at COTA due to problems there. IMSA replaced COTA with Mid Ohio and the ACO are trying to do their own race at Sebring on the same weekend as the 12 Hour.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 14:33 (Ref:3808343)   #1161
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
The ACO could race anywhere in the US for a North American round if they give up on running almost exclusively on Grade 1 tracks, or even a place like Montreal. I myself see the twin Sebring event as like the first WEC race at Sebring that was a combined ALMS round, basically a stop gap until something more permanent can be worked out.

After all, the ACO placed themselves in this position when both they and IMSA ditched races at COTA due to problems there. IMSA replaced COTA with Mid Ohio and the ACO are trying to do their own race at Sebring on the same weekend as the 12 Hour.
Why do you say that the 2012 race was intended as "stop-gap"? Beforehad they had had three shared ILMC events with ALMS, which all run pretty much without hiccups and may be considered some of the most celebrated meetings in recent history. There was no reason for anyone to think of it as temporary. The frictions didn't come until later when both parties started acting like arrogant spoiled children
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 14:48 (Ref:3808347)   #1162
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,880
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
Remember how awkwardly the race actually happened? And we well know now how much the ACO like Grade 1 infrastructure and 6 hour races. That's something that even now Sebring doesn't really offer, being a Grade 2 track.

IMO, Sebring happened in '12 due in part to how much pull Audi Sport had in the WEC's formative days, and that they (and some others as a LM warm up) would've run Sebring anyways with or without the WEC. It was just a marriage of convenience there for Sebring that year.

Of course, a combined Sebring or even PLM event could've continued if egos didn't get in the way.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2018, 15:26 (Ref:3808366)   #1163
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Remember how awkwardly the race actually happened? And we well know now how much the ACO like Grade 1 infrastructure and 6 hour races. That's something that even now Sebring doesn't really offer, being a Grade 2 track.

IMO, Sebring happened in '12 due in part to how much pull Audi Sport had in the WEC's formative days, and that they (and some others as a LM warm up) would've run Sebring anyways with or without the WEC. It was just a marriage of convenience there for Sebring that year.

Of course, a combined Sebring or even PLM event could've continued if egos didn't get in the way.
It was clunky and awkward but indeed it was due to practical arrogance from both FIA/ACO and IMSA. The ILMC proved you CAN do it right, and in fact I distinctly remember how people here in 10/10ths as well were so excited when Sebring was announced as part of WEC for 2012. Why? Because they had trust in these parties based on what had already happened.

Too bad that the trust was misplaced. Idiotic separate sub classes for same cars when beforehand they were easily combined, absurd hateful quotes from FIA year beforehand ("we will not accept GTC cars"), badly coordinated proceedings... Those were the things that got out of hand. Overall I still don't think it was as disastrous as everyone claims it was, but obviously far from ideal.

Of course the final nail in the head for the event, albeit already after the conclusion, was the Grand-Am takeover talks, which killed off any possible future full-on integration and LMP1 future in North America. EVEN for 2019, as already discussed

Anyway, obviously they do love their sterile Grade 1 carparks and VIP money lounges, but I think Sebring gets a "waiver" where they overlook things for the benefit of common good. They also should know from the recent surveys that this is what people actually want, not 6 hours of whatever in the middle of nowhere. The rumored Mil Milhas resurrection may further indicate that they are listening now, at last what people want

I am excited for 2019 Sebring, even to the point where I doubt I would have come back discussing here about things if they hadn't announced the event. Just like PLM, the 12 hours is a sad shadow of it's former itself with dumbed down spec cars and lucky dog nonsense so this 1500 miles is the true replacement for me... Even if it ends up being just one-off - which I hope not of course - it's something the championship has needed for a long time IMO, another event besides just LM that stands out and is worth something more. Added bonus the great circuit itself, unneutered

Sportscar racing should be about events first and foremost. The championship should just be the tool that loosely connects those events together... Not the other way around
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 06:22 (Ref:3809795)   #1164
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
It's the 22nd, so if the resurrection of Mil Milhas is happening, it should be announced today.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 06:26 (Ref:3809797)   #1165
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,117
TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!
What are everyone's thoughts on Pastor Maldonaldo signing on for Dragonspeed's lmp2? Does it scare you or do you think he deserves another shot? I think he has at least a chance to prove himself and get rid of the 'Crashdonaldo' nickname. And he has won an F1 race before.
TF110 is online now  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 06:28 (Ref:3809798)   #1166
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Well Grosjean got rid of his name crashy nickname too...
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 11:41 (Ref:3809858)   #1167
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Good to hear

"Firm plans for the Sebring World Endurance Championship race next March could be announced within the next two weeks."

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/fir...111005953.html

edit:

https://twitter.com/specutainment/st...20146688552960

Latest, according to WEC paddock chat; it seems the latest proposal for @FIAWEC Sebring Race is that it runs 9 hours, Friday Afternoon into darkness.


noooooooooooooooooo this sounds like utter crap hopefully nonsense as it has inferiority complex feel to it most of all

First ACO draft - run it integrated with IMSA as 12 Hours, IMSA refuses because of product protection
Second ACO draft - run it as separate 12 hours distance after IMSA, IMSA refuses because of product protection
Third ACO draft - run it as separate 1500 miles distance after IMSA, accepted [but ???]
Fourth ACO draft (???) - run it as separate 9 hours prior IMSA, ???

Last edited by Chiana; 22 Mar 2018 at 12:08.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 12:25 (Ref:3809873)   #1168
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I was thinking of why this particular aspect felt so familiar and then it hit me... remember 2010, you had Spa 24 Hours and GT1 World Championship running separately that weekend, in 'a rousing success'... the former first division cars of the historical feature event, now racing in world championship are relegated to shorter racing that's being run as build-up towards the said main feature event, which in turn is made up of previously second-rate cars
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 12:27 (Ref:3809874)   #1169
EffectiveSprinkles
Veteran
 
EffectiveSprinkles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 804
EffectiveSprinkles should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEffectiveSprinkles should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I liked the 1500 miles, I wonder why that changed.
EffectiveSprinkles is online now  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2018, 12:30 (Ref:3809876)   #1170
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,731
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles View Post
I liked the 1500 miles, I wonder why that changed.
It's not officially changed yet

And I truly hope it won't
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2018 Silly Season (with POLL) GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 2074 19 Oct 2018 06:49
[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season. F1Guy Formula One 1204 17 Sep 2018 00:44
WEC round 8: Six Hours of Bahrain---WEC season finale. chernaudi ACO Regulated Series 212 23 Nov 2015 22:17
Hockenheim secures new deal until 2018 jab Formula One 13 2 Oct 2009 01:25


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.