[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Deleted]

Once again apologies for the double post but the editing time really is quite short and these stories keep breaking
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...tire-decision/

“I’m quite disappointed that the tire war between two serious and solid tire manufacturers is just dying. That’s really what is a shame to some extent.
“We should have taken the LMP2 model and have tried to bring it to LMP1. That’s what I proposed in the beginning. Give a chance to everyone.

For once someone from PR that actually speaks the truth and does not sugar coat it. Now, I am perfectly sure that if LMP2 spec tire deal offered to them they had still taken it - just as they did with Hypercar - and went on with the usual marketing fairy tale speech every manufacturer does when give exclusivity. We all saw how Dunlop/Goodyear also magically changed their point of views too when money spoke. However it's still good to see responses like this here.

[TF110]

Maybe once hypercar is healthy, they can let go of bs rules like this. The quick dash to save cash can have negative affects, this being one of them. I don't think it's really a money saver, seems that's what he is saying here too.

[chernaudi]

The ACO's model has been OEM biased for years, because of notoriety and sponsor dollars. Audi and Audi Sport did more to promote LM and LM-style endurance racing than the ACO have done since I can remember. Hell, even TMG and Toyota have done more to promote LM than the ACO have recently done.

That policy does smack of greed and laziness, however, in my honest opinion.

[chernaudi]

Maybe we shouldn't fret too much about performance of the LMP Hypercars coming to LMP1 next year? According to a post on Midweek Motorsports Facebook Page, there's a video on You Tube where a road legal AM Valkyrie lapped around a track, on road legal tires, basically as fast as a current LMP2 car. And it's a standard road legal Valkyrie, not the LMPH version or the AMR-Pro track version that the LMPH version will be based on.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Maybe we shouldn't fret too much about performance of the LMP Hypercars coming to LMP1 next year? According to a post on Midweek Motorsports Facebook Page, there's a video on You Tube where a road legal AM Valkyrie lapped around a track, on road legal tires, basically as fast as a current LMP2 car. And it's a standard road legal Valkyrie, not the LMPH version or the AMR-Pro track version that the LMPH version will be based on.

Well when they presented the Valkyrie project in 2016 (Called RB 001 in this moment), they talked about a car as fast as a 2016 F1 in Silverstone (an F1 with the old rules that was narrower and with smaller wings than now).
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...newey/3221208/
So it is totally logical that it is faster than a current LMP2.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that the LMP Hypercar version will be restricted to 750bhp, and won't run a hybrid system.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Problem is that the LMP Hypercar version will be restricted to 750bhp, and won't run a hybrid system.

Well we would have to assume that the car of the YouTube video is not restricted in 750 HP and also has the hybrid system.(you said it was a road legal AM Valkyrie)
The LMP Hypercar will have BOP, with which those 750 HP could be relative and be more or less depending on the performance of the cars.

[TF110]

It's actually 590kw on the latest version of the regulations. That translates to 791+hp (of course bop might change that). I actually read something else that says ~830hp is being touted as the total. Remember, the road Valkyrie is running a hybrid so it is producing a little bit of power from that. The race version won't have it so the engine won't be too far off its road car total. I think this will help save fuel too. Plus there are rules for minimum weight of the engine (something absurd like 180kg).

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Maybe we shouldn't fret too much about performance of the LMP Hypercars coming to LMP1 next year? According to a post on Midweek Motorsports Facebook Page, there's a video on You Tube where a road legal AM Valkyrie lapped around a track, on road legal tires, basically as fast as a current LMP2 car. And it's a standard road legal Valkyrie, not the LMPH version or the AMR-Pro track version that the LMPH version will be based on.

Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJcbZ1KLMd8

I just skimmed through it and I see no laptimes, just the AMR guy claiming that it's faster than an LMP2. The whole point of LMP2 being slowed down is to accomodate for road cars like the Valkyrie being in the top class and even with the race car running no hybrid (which is completely AMR's choice) and 750hp I can't imagine it'll be slower than the road car, so I'm gonna call BS.

[Deleted]

Road cars always have superior straight line speed in comparison to their racing counterparts, but horrible aero as well as cornering, most notably as the road legal tires are complete trash in relative performance. So unless the comparison is done on, I don't know. airfield or Talladega Superspeedway, the road one always going to lose. Fake news it is.

The only reason they're not running the hybrid is to save money, not performance. And frankly having hybrid in a bop class is meaningless anyways, other than for marketing reasons.

[Aysedasi]

Sounds awful in-car..... Nothing really to see in that video, to be honest.....

[Deleted]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/12/20/hugues-de-chaunac-on-hypercar-on-dpi-2-0-and-on-convergence.html

I think that for the moment, LMP2 is a big and great success, but it’s a team championship. With the same car, it is a little like Indycar where you have the same car but it’s a team and it’s working very well just because it’s a good fight between the teams."

"-- If you do an investigation on all the LMP2 teams you will be surprised by the fact that everybody is happy with our support, I think if your question is perhaps whether one or two of these teams are ever to jump into the big category, LMP1, it could be possible, depending on the regulation for a global platform. It could be possible to have the same spec chassis and just have a new body design, which is a possibility and that we are completely open to and prepared to do it.”

More amazing remarks from Mr Monopoly

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Chiana

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/12/20/hugues-de-chaunac-on-hypercar-on-dpi-2-0-and-on-convergence.html

[i] I think that for the moment, LMP2 is a big and great success, but it’s a team championship. With the same car, it is a little like Indycar where you have the same car but it’s a team and it’s working very well just because it’s a good fight between the teams."

Motorsport
Auto racing
Racing cars

The car is part of the deal, Hugues. We don't just want a teams championship.

[Deleted]

You can get a great teams championship in the French Porsche Carrera Cup or West Tansanian Touring Car Championship as well.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Chiana

You can get a great teams championship in the French Porsche Carrera Cup or West Tansanian Touring Car Championship as well.

And?? How does that translate at all to the current discussion?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Road cars always have superior straight line speed in comparison to their racing counterparts, but horrible aero as well as cornering, most notably as the road legal tires are complete trash in relative performance. So unless the comparison is done on, I don't know. airfield or Talladega Superspeedway, the road one always going to lose. Fake news it is.

The only reason they're not running the hybrid is to save money, not performance. And frankly having hybrid in a bop class is meaningless anyways, other than for marketing reasons.

Not sure if they're going to keep it, but there's a power curve on the torque to hp ratio in the regs that seemingly favors engines like the Valkyrie's that is 'detuned' and one's that run hybrid because they can fill the torque.

[Mike E]

Some tyre news from Michelin.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ypercar-class/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Some tyre news from Michelin.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ypercar-class/

That was surprisingly candid. Lots to consider with the heavier cars and quick speeds. Any chance the tires selected will favor one mode of car more than the other? Will the protos get the better tire, or will the street based cars have an easier time? It has to be hard to ensure both cars will get equal tires based on how different they may generate lap times.

[Deleted]

With or without different tires for configuration A and B, it was always going to be a bop nightmare. Not that it's much to say, but at least in something like GTE and GT3 they're 'only' bopping each individual car against each other. Here they have to do not only that but also bop these different chassis ideologies as groups. And don't forget hybrids and non-hybrids. Finally if they also decide to push DPI 2.0 into the mix of Prototype-Things and HyperGT-Things, it'll be even more confusing

[TF110]

At least they have experience with Super GT which is 1000-1100kg and 650+hp making a great deal of downforce. So there's that. It isn't unprecedented for Michelin. I wish it wasn't a monopoly on the tires but maybe it'll open up in a couple of seasons.

Here's an article on Glickenhaus's car, but the interesting thing is that 830hp number pops up again https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...mans-hypercar/

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by TF110

At least they have experience with Super GT which is 1000-1100kg and 650+hp making a great deal of downforce. So there's that. It isn't unprecedented for Michelin. I wish it wasn't a monopoly on the tires but maybe it'll open up in a couple of seasons.

Here's an article on Glickenhaus's car, but the interesting thing is that 830hp number pops up again https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...mans-hypercar/

Mention of running a twin-turbo, 2.9 litre engine pretty much confirms it is an Alfa.
Hope it sounds better than some of the other TT V6s we have been subjected to recently (lookin' at you, Ford).

[Mike E]

“As for DPi-Hypercar convergence. We welcome anything that would bring more high-level competitors to race with us. At the moment Le Mans Hypercar combines two sets of regulations, for prototypes and road-based hypercars, so why not include a third option based on DPi with BoP?”

This feels like a significant point (which has been made in other ways before)

The convergence between:
DPi being slightly quicker than LMP2 (which will be slowed down),
LMH being grotesquely heavy,
and BoP now being accepted at all levels of sportscar racing as a fact of life,
is allowing the possibility of combined fields of Toyotas, Astons, Cadillacs, Acuras, Mazda, Glickenhauses, Peugeots etc.

It's the dream SRO have been living, but with prototypes.

Before you have a go at me, I don't like BoP.

I also applaud TMG's enthusiasm for competition, under whatever set of regs.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2020/0...-hypercar.html

[Deleted]

Yes what could possibly go wrong? I mean the early IMSA fusion series seasons between DP, LMP2 and Deltawing were great example of everything working out in wild wild west of non-regulations, and no political preference given to any of the opposing factions

[Mike E]

What indeed...

[Deleted]

Don't forget fourth different configuration into the same mix once Zero Emission comes over! As well as named constructors such as De La Chapelle and VIS-AVTO rebadging wide array of privateer Orecas! It's gonna be great