[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[GasperG]

The big automakers stocks are never exactly a good buy, they are just to big to double in value. On the other hand Toyota made a deal with NVIDIA (automated driving), now that is a stock that has potential.

[ederss7]

Originally Posted by GasperG

The big automakers stocks are never exactly a good buy, they are just to big to double in value. On the other hand Toyota made a deal with NVIDIA (automated driving), now that is a stock that has potential.

Even after a historic win at Le Mans?

[GasperG]

What does win at LeMans mean to selling more than 10 milion road cars per year? Toyota has the potential to own the (plug-in) hybrid market in the near future, but on the other hand they are lagging behind in infotainment, automated driving and EVs. Styling of their cars is also many times a big fail.

[TF110]

In racing news, a third Toyota at Fuji is an "open question" http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...omment-2292671. That would be cool to see. If they do win Le Mans, that would be a great gesture to the Japanese fans to see 'hero Toyota' with 3 cars. Perhaps with Kunimoto again. He's pretty good 'round Fuji

[hondafan37]

It is interesting to note that Kamui KOBAYASHI was the faster driver, but his teammates were the slowest Toyota drivers.

This is the times details:

Kamui KOBAYASHI 3:18.132 (Toyota 7)
Sébastien BUEMI 3:19.290 (Toyota 8)
Kazuki NAKAJIMA 3:20.019 (Toyota 8)
Jose Maria LOPEZ 3:21.455 (Toyota 9)
Earl BAMBER 3:21.512 (Porsche 2)
Anthony DAVIDSON 3:22.075 (Toyota 8)
Neel JANI 3:22.100 (Porsche 1)
Nicolas LAPIERRE 3:22.362 (Toyota 9)
Yuji KUNIMOTO 3:22.396 36 (Toyota 9)
H André LOTTERER 3:22.519 (Porsche 1)
Mike CONWAY 3:22.750 (Toyota 7)
Timo BERNHARD 3:23.089 (Porsche 2)
Stéphane SARRAZIN 3:23.450 (Toyota 7)
Brendon HARTLEY 3:23.494 (Porsche 2)
Nick TANDY 3:25.884 (Porsche 1)
Marc LIEB 3:26.786 (Porsche 1)
Marc LIEB 3:35.328 (Porsche 2)

[Starfish Primer]

From @Matlemans

"Interesting... several eye witnesses indicating that Kobayashi clearly lifted after exiting Ford chic. on its two fastest laps."

https://twitter.com/matlemans/status/871810064537006081

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

From @Matlemans


https://twitter.com/matlemans/status/871810064537006081

Are we talking in a possible 3:17 or even 3:16?!?!?!?!?

[Aysedasi]

Must be a possibility in qually. After all, Porsche did it 2 years ago.....

[GasperG]

... with a lot more fuel flow

[chernaudi]

Didn't stop Toyota from smashing pole and race lap records at Silverstone and Porsche doing the same in qualifying at Spa this year. Not to mention that there's rumors that Toyota was having drivers lift off out of the Ford Chicanes near S/F.

[Hiro]

I watched the Spa QYF onboard of Conway (1.53.9) where he clearly lifted just before the s/f line (after the busstop chcane) (or, lift may be programed because it may not affect less than in other longer straights?), did anyone notice it?

[roderick]

Originally Posted by Hiro

I watched the Spa QYF onboard of Conway (1.53.9) where he clearly lifted just before the s/f line (after the busstop chcane) (or, lift may be programed), did anyone notice it?

Someone's got the right idea!
Due to 3 lap average fuel regulation, all LMP1H cars has program to cut the fuel for individual sectors.
s/f line only makes up so little of the time gain, therefore engineers tend to save fuel there for other corners or the straights.
oh and drivers are on full throttle but the program cuts the gas.

[Hiro]

That makes sense, thanks, Roderick

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by roderick

Someone's got the right idea!
Due to 3 lap average fuel regulation, all LMP1H cars has program to cut the fuel for individual sectors.
s/f line only makes up so little of the time gain, therefore engineers tend to save fuel there for other corners or the straights.
oh and drivers are on full throttle but the program cuts the gas.

Great post, thank you!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Didn't stop Toyota from smashing pole and race lap records at Silverstone and Porsche doing the same in qualifying at Spa this year. Not to mention that there's rumors that Toyota was having drivers lift off out of the Ford Chicanes near S/F.

Their speed (with the LM package) was shown somewhat in qualifying at Spa by Sarrazin when he did a 1:53.6 which is the fastest ever lmp1 lap.

Originally Posted by roderick

Someone's got the right idea!
Due to 3 lap average fuel regulation, all LMP1H cars has program to cut the fuel for individual sectors.
s/f line only makes up so little of the time gain, therefore engineers tend to save fuel there for other corners or the straights.
oh and drivers are on full throttle but the program cuts the gas.

The three lap average was already taken care of thanks to his 3:25 in between the 2 laps of 3:18.3 and 3:18.1. Out lap, hot lap, cool lap, hot lap. Kobayashi says he had a lot of traffic and could have went faster too-

“The laptime was not really brilliant,” said Kobayashi. “Actually I had a lot of traffic, so we were missing half a second of laptime, which I think is very positive for us.

“It’s a really exciting feeling when the lap wasn’t really the best, but we still achieved a good laptime.

“It was only at the start of the session, I think the third or fifth lap, so the track evolution would have helped more and we’ll see more laptime coming in the next two weeks.”

It's one thing to coast, which they do at the end of the straight, and another to lift so much that a GTE car pulls away from them

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by TF110

The three lap average was already taken care of thanks to his 3:25 in between the 2 laps of 3:18.3 and 3:18.1.

If I remember correctly, 3-lap average fuel limit is applied in the race. In qualifying, fuel consumption in each lap is equally limited based on this 3-lap average, isnt it?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Hiro

If I remember correctly, 3-lap average fuel limit is applied in the race. In qualifying, fuel consumption in each lap is equally limited based on this 3-lap average, isnt it?

Not sure on this. But I assume they were running the 3-lap average of the race during the test day. It's pretty certain there's more to come. The question I want to know is how much?

[Hiro]

Yes, of course, I predict they will break 3.15 in qualifying, but note that #7 drivers will have to lift off the throttle before the s/f line in qualifying as programmed as Conway did (which I recorded and watched) in qualifying at Spa and qualifying simulation by Kobayashi last weekend witnessed by some at La Sarthe. Maybe the engineer of #7 car likes to do that.
I also suppose Toyota and Porsche (especially Jani) will be close in qualifying as they were at spa, although qualifying is not important in the first place.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Hiro

Yes, of course, I predict they will break 3.15 in qualifying, but note that #7 drivers will have to lift off the throttle before the s/f line in qualifying as programmed as Conway did (which I recorded and watched) in qualifying at Spa and qualifying simulation by Kobayashi last weekend witnessed by some at La Sarthe. Maybe the engineer of #7 car likes to do that.
I also suppose Toyota and Porsche (especially Jani) will be close in qualifying as they were at spa, although qualifying is not important in the first place.

I watched qualifying at Spa as well, but not onboard of the #7, so I didn't see any lift. Can you upload the video of that? The #9 didn't lift at the line. Could it be that because of the Porsche going off track right in front of them?

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by TF110

Could it be that because of the Porsche going off track right in front of them?

I thought that could be first, but seemed Conway was already off throttle when Hartley went off before the bus stop thus it might have affected less. Its just my speculation, so lets see how they will run next week.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Hiro

I thought that could be first, but seemed Conway was already off throttle when Hartley went off before the bus stop thus it might have affected less. Its just my speculation, so lets see how they will run next week.

If he was off-throttle before the final chicane, that's normal, they still have to do a predeterminate amount of lift-and-coast before braking even on a quali lap, and probably even more so in the last 1-2 big braking zones of a lap.

[GasperG]

What is the fuel tank capacity this year? Still 62.5 l minus 1.5 l margin?

Max amount of fuel they can use per lap is 4.31 liter so for 14 laps the 8 MJ hybrid uses max 60.34 liter.

14 lap stint is in line with what rules allow, the real question is why would anyone (like Porsche last year) make shorter stints? Maybe for some error margin of 1% is just too small to rely upon in real life? Maybe that margin can be abused (no flow meter is 100% accurate) and then you fall short of 14 laps?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by GasperG

What is the fuel tank capacity this year? Still 62.5 l minus 1.5 l margin?

Max amount of fuel they can use per lap is 4.31 liter so for 14 laps the 8 MJ hybrid uses max 60.34 liter.

14 lap stint is in line with what rules allow, the real question is why would anyone (like Porsche last year) make shorter stints? Maybe for some error margin of 1% is just too small to rely upon in real life? Maybe that margin can be abused (no flow meter is 100% accurate) and then you fall short of 14 laps?

Don't quote me on this, but wasn't Porsche short filling to save time in the pits last year? I don't really remember.

[J Jay]

That's part of it, but weren't Porsche were also doing something on the borders of legality with fueling to save time? The shorter fill didn't account for the ~5s in pit stop length.

[XtC24]

Reportedly they were on the edge of running out of fuel with 14 laps flat out, it was just to risky, so they used such strategy only in the end of the race to catch Toyota, probably saving some fuel in the end of stint.