[Team] Ferrari: in F1

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

OK - what is the official instruction from FiA to Ferrari?

If or when the FiA decide to release to the public the "official instruction", I'll be the first to post it here.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The overheating camera issue still remains, hence the covering of a cockpit with an umbrella. If it was to shield what the camera was seeing (as some people looking for a conspiracy theory have speculated), then an umbrella would serve no purpose.

Is that your best analysis is it? If so, could you please give me your expert opinion on why if covering the cockpit with an umbrella is indeed to prevent the FOM camera from overheating (as ignoramus fans would have you believe), then why is the camera outside of the covered area in the photo below?? And, why would the camera also need a wall of Ferrari personnel around the car? Is it's to keep the cooler air contained right next to the camera, hence, cooling the camera? Yeah??


That photo above is from the starting grid in Monza, post FiA notice. Note the FOM camera is outside of the covered cockpit. And the umbrella does indeed serve the purpose to shied what the camera can see inside the cockpit and/or steering wheel.

As I've stated previously, the dry ice bag does not contain "dry ice". It has been placed over the camera when the bag was completely empty. See photo below.


It has been placed over the camera when it was full. But as anyone with half a brain could see, the bag below is not a bag full of "dry ice".

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What we do know though is that:

"We" do?? Maybe it's just you?

You cut and pasted a paragraph taken from THIS article. But conveniently, you did not post a link to the article. Why? Is that because in that very same article, it goes on to say:

The practice has caught the eye of rival teams. It prompted speculation Ferrari was covering its camera to prevent the team’s activities being observed in between runs during practice and qualifying.

RaceFans has learned Ferrari took the decision to cover its camera partly in response to an incident at a previous race weekend when a rear-facing camera was accidentally activated while the car was in the garage. This resulted in footage of sensitive parts of its car including the engine and rear suspension being broadcast.

So the same article you tried to use as evidence that the Ferrari FOM camera is "overheating", also states that Ferrari are purposefully covering the camera to prevent sensitive footage being recorded/broadcasted. Hmmm..

There are quite a few articles on the net about the FiA notice to stop Ferrari using the "dry ice bag" (or some other item, as Ferrari has done previously) to cover the FOM camera. Most are in non English (Italian, German, French, etc.) There's THIS article I found that is in English with a quick Google. It quotes an article from a German source namely Auto motor und sport. I'm sure there maybe more mainstream news sources in English when the F1 circus heads to the next round in Singapore and the word gets around.

Until then, ciao bella!

[Kempi]

Just wondering, what is Mercedes doing here and is it different than Ferrari in Monza?

[Akrapovic]

Why would the Mercedes need a wall of personnel around it? And they've completely covered the camera too.

Clearly, they are cheating.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

That photo above is from the starting grid in Monza, post FiA notice. Note the FOM camera is outside of the covered cockpit. And the umbrella does indeed serve the purpose to shied what the camera can see inside the cockpit and/or steering wheel.

Now I am happy to admit that cooling the camera may not be the reason Ferrari were using the 'bag', and that it is possible that they were doing it for some other reason. I was merely pointing out that an immediate jump to a conspiracy theory seems to be the standard response from some when Ferrari do something that seems out of the ordinary. I had not seen the images prior to today, and can now see that it does appear to be an attempt to cover the cockpit (for whatever reason).

Originally Posted by F1Guy

(as ignoramus fans would have you believe),

Yeah??

But as anyone with half a brain could see,


ciao bella!

Why the need to hurl insults around when responding to a post?
Is it possible to just engage in conversation without the need to provoke and inflame?

And if gendered language is going to be used, at least get the gender right please!

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And they've completely covered the camera too.

Is there an optometrist close to where you are?

Clearly ignoring what's obvious.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Why the need to hurl insults around when responding to a post?

Insult?? Anyways, not you particularly so take one of these ->
Just seeing/reading a lot of ignorant folk totally ignoring the facts presented. See above.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Is it possible to just engage in conversation without the need to provoke and inflame?

Pot. Kettle. Black?? Most, if not every post directed towards me by you is provoking or inflammatory. And here you are crying foul now?? Please.

[Akrapovic]

Every team goes to great lengths to hide everything on their cars. It wasn't long ago that every team on the grid was covering the garage entrances. They weren't hiding anything illegal - they were trying to stop others from seeing what their performance advantages are.

Ferrari may or may not be cooling the camera (and despite claims here, nobody actually knows that), however, there is also nothing to suggest that what is going on is illegal. If the FIA have been investigating it, and all they can say is "pretty please please please don't cover the camera", then it suggests what is going on is completely legal, as otherwise, they'd be saying something a bit more than that.

And if they suspected the drivers were doing something in the car, they'd simply request telemetry from that time. We've seen that sort of thing before.

Basically, the only way this holds water is if everybody involved is incompetent. Which tends to be how it goes for conspiracy theories - pick and choose your facts, and assume everyone but the author is an idiot.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Kempi

Just wondering, what is Mercedes doing here and is it different than Ferrari in Monza?

Looks like everyone being respectful of the national anthem to me.

[Kempi]

And that they should!

[S griffin]

I remember how keen teams were to stand in front of the double diffuser when a few teams used that at the beginning of 2009

[VIVA GT]

There is always a lot of smoke and mirrors going on in motorsport, especially in F1! Many times teams have done something quite odd, that is blatantly obvious as a distraction tactic towards the other teams.
I was told that in the 1960's (I think) Lotus added some Ribena to bottles containing coolant to give it an obviously different look. When asked about it the story was it was some demon liquid that allowed the engine to produce more power (which was all a scam). This distracted the other teams from seeing what really was going on!
Maybe the Ferrari 'ice pack' is a similar scam?

[S griffin]

And who can forget the dustbin lid on the Brabham fan car?

[Skam85]

All this hot air just seems to be an attempt at building a foundation for if Vettel wins the WDC “there will always be question marks over the legality of the car”, rather than “he was better than Lewis over the course of the season”

something something ‘Vettel fangurl’

[Richard C]

My consistent "belief" is that Ferrari was/are just trying to hide proprietary info and not trying to do anything illegal. I am not a Ferrari fan, but I don't get why every discussion that is about technical topics + Ferrari seem to morph into questions of "cheating".

Not to mention the incessant need here to weaponize posts so they can prove they are right, or to zing others with "I told you so" moments.

Richard

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

My consistent "belief" is that Ferrari was/are just trying to hide proprietary info and not trying to do anything illegal. I am not a Ferrari fan, but I don't get why every discussion that is about technical topics + Ferrari seem to morph into questions of "cheating".

Not to mention the incessant need here to weaponize posts so they can prove they are right, or to zing others with "I told you so" moments.

That's the modern internet for you

Anyway: I've been on a fair few grids, F1 included albeit not many of them, and teams of all shapes and sizes from small club entrants up to Ferrari try to cover certain things up to prevent competitors from seeing how they're setup, what they're running etc etc. It's been like that for decades and will continue to be - almost nobody is cheating, per se, they're just trying to get the upper hand over their opposite numbers.

It's all a bit "please move along, nothing to see here" - just like when Mercedes used to deliberately mask part of the back of their car with mechanics so nobody looked in the cockpit.

[Adam43]

It is obvious what is going on here and everyone can see it. Oh and Ferrari cover up the view of the camera too.

[crmalcolm]

One thing that intrigues me in this whole 'bag on the camera' and now 'umbrella over the cockpit' saga is the amount of column inches, broadcast time and online posts that it has generated, attempting to determine what is going on and maybe even 'expose' something.

Looking at the bag in isolation - if its purpose is to stop the camera from seeing something, then its not going to be very effective.
When the car is running the bag is not present, so the camera can see what is going on.
When the car is stationary, the car is often in a position where others can see what the camera sees, so again it would be simple to determine if there was anything out of the ordinary going on.

So is the bag used to obscure the camera, to cool something down, or for anther reason altogether? Maybe the purpose of the bag (which the use of is not discreet) is to get people fixated on the bag?

While so much effort has been made to understand what the bag is for - have Ferrari been drawing everyone's attention away from something else on the car that is contributing to their performance level?

And what evidence, other than circumstantial, is there that the umbrella use is related to the bag?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

One thing that intrigues me in this whole 'bag on the camera' and now 'umbrella over the cockpit' saga is the amount of column inches, broadcast time and online posts that it has generated, attempting to determine what is going on and maybe even 'expose' something.

Looking at the bag in isolation - if its purpose is to stop the camera from seeing something, then its not going to be very effective.
When the car is running the bag is not present, so the camera can see what is going on.
When the car is stationary, the car is often in a position where others can see what the camera sees, so again it would be simple to determine if there was anything out of the ordinary going on.

So is the bag used to obscure the camera, to cool something down, or for anther reason altogether? Maybe the purpose of the bag (which the use of is not discreet) is to get people fixated on the bag?

While so much effort has been made to understand what the bag is for - have Ferrari been drawing everyone's attention away from something else on the car that is contributing to their performance level?

And what evidence, other than circumstantial, is there that the umbrella use is related to the bag?

Exactly crm. Smoke & mirrors & distraction tactics!

[wnut]

Where exactly in the rules does it say, "the competitor is bound to point out its performance advantage to the opposition"?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wnut

Where exactly in the rules does it say, "the competitor is bound to point out its performance advantage to the opposition"?

In the section that states - 'no team should have an advantage over another, and any team found to have a performance advantage will be assumed to be cheating'......

[Mike Bell]

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Exactly crm. Smoke & mirrors & distraction tactics!

If drivers are going to be looking, let's make them think there is something worth looking for....

[Adam43]

If I’d ran a team I’d do this all the time. Then settle down with a nice drink and peruse Internet forums. Except, of course, I’d have a life.

[Akrapovic]

I'd build a terrible car and still try and keep it all a secret. Imagine the fun.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd build a terrible car and still try and keep it all a secret. Imagine the fun.

Is that what McLaren did?
They wanted people to be so scared of the mcl32 that they kept it under wraps...


For the mcl33, they wanted to draw everyone's attention to whatever they must be covering at the back of the car....