Mercedes second seat? - Page 4

ASCII Man · 3 Dec 2016, 21:54 (Ref:3693415)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Its a wonder some idiot hasn't suggested bringing back Jacques Villeneuve.

Damnit!

Missed opportunity.

Hawkwood · 3 Dec 2016, 21:56 (Ref:3693417)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzzor

My thoughts on the various options, in order of most likely...

Wehrlein: I think it has to be this guy. Although, Mercedes already picked Ocon over him for the promotion so maybe they haven't been satisfied with him for some reason.

Ocon: Ocon's not a Merc young driver though, is he.

Bold: It was Force India that picked Ocon over Wehrlein.
Underlined: Yes he is.

gert · 3 Dec 2016, 22:04 (Ref:3693421)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Bold: It was Force India that picked Ocon over Wehrlein.
Underlined: Yes he is.

AFAIK, you are right on both accounts.

JABWOA · 3 Dec 2016, 22:22 (Ref:3693423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Bold: It was Force India that picked Ocon over Wehrlein.
Underlined: Yes he is.

I believe Merc let them pick Ocon as they knew there was a potential new home for Pascal brewing. If Nico didn't go then he's a well used development driver getting ready for the year after. (The complaining might not have helped though.)

gert · 4 Dec 2016, 01:26 (Ref:3693440)

I'm not sure. I don't think Mercedes knew Rosberg was going to leave at that time.
AFAIK, he only anounced it after Abu Dhabi.

Angus Theape · 4 Dec 2016, 01:38 (Ref:3693443)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think Montoya would have to go on a crash diet to get back into an F1 car.

The diet would be an improvement. The crash is taken for granted.

BSchneiderFan · 4 Dec 2016, 01:51 (Ref:3693447)

The Daily Mirror is reporting the front-runners as Alonso, Vettel and Button. I think we can discount the first two - why the hell would McLaren or Ferrari let them go off and drive for the opposition?

My money's still on Wehrlein.

Nicholosophy · 4 Dec 2016, 04:22 (Ref:3693472)

Webber to Renault

wnut · 4 Dec 2016, 06:35 (Ref:3693484)

Felipe Massa, wants to continue, no contract, heaps of experience.

Moneyseeker · 4 Dec 2016, 07:07 (Ref:3693486)

Lauda says that 'half the grid' have offered their services to Mercedes.....presumably the other half are still trying to get through!

Airhead · 4 Dec 2016, 08:38 (Ref:3693496)

Vettel it would be one German for another.

p-matt · 4 Dec 2016, 09:38 (Ref:3693502)

Wolff said earlier in the year that Bottas and Alonso would be candidates if they couldn't agree terms with their current drivers. It seems that it will be one of those two if they can get them out of their current contracts, or Wehrlein if not

Nicholosophy · 4 Dec 2016, 09:40 (Ref:3693505)

Bottas probably easier due to the Merc engine deal at Williams. Cheaper engines plus Wehrlein.

cds_uk · 4 Dec 2016, 10:08 (Ref:3693511)

I have to admit, i thought Wehrlein was a given, but the Bottas to Mercedes, Wehrlein to Williams scenario makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

Taxi645 · 4 Dec 2016, 10:34 (Ref:3693516)

Let's say current years Renault is indeed roughly 50hp behind Mercedes. Renault is rumoured to find about 50hp for next year. Let's assume Mercedes finds another 20HP, Renault disadvantage will have shrunk from 50 to 20HP. Together with Red Bulls aero expertise and Ricciardo and Verstappen in the car that's is enough to pose a very serious threat to Mercedes constructors championship.

Mercedes simply can't afford to put a second rate driver in their car otherwise they add an avoidable risk towards winning the constructors championship. So in my view that throws out Wehrlein (too early) and Bottas, they need someone at least as good as Rosberg, preferably better.

Ricciardo and Verstappen won't leave a potentially WDC winning car, so they'll stay. So that leaves (in rough order of capability):

1 Alonso

2 Vettel (German)

3 Perez
3 Sainz
3 Hulkenberg (German)
3 Grosjean

If they want one of these they'll have to pay up to break the contract (depending on contract clauses). The higher up the list the more it will cost them, they have no choice.

wolfhound · 4 Dec 2016, 10:59 (Ref:3693523)

The problem is we don't know how good the current Williams cars are and we have had no movement of drivers from Williams for a few years. I suspect that Bottas would be a good solid points gatherer but usually behind Hamilton but still capable of winning GP's.
If Bottas was coming second or third behind Hamilton then I cannot see a problem for Mercedes. I would put him as similar to Coultard in terms of ability.

Taxi645 · 4 Dec 2016, 11:28 (Ref:3693532)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

If Bottas was coming second or third behind Hamilton then I cannot see a problem for Mercedes. I would put him as similar to Coultard in terms of ability.

If the Red Bull car is indeed as good as the Mercedes then it will be Ricciardo and Verstappen against Hamilton and Bottas and then Bottas won't be 2nd but Behind Ricciardo and Verstappen as well. Then the WCC goes to Red Bull and that's a risk Mercedes can't take.

In fact anyone other than Alonso or Vettel for 2017 is a risk from a capability perspective.

gert · 4 Dec 2016, 11:44 (Ref:3693537)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If the Red Bull car is indeed as good as the Mercedes then it will be Ricciardo and Verstappen against Hamilton and Bottas and then Bottas won't be 2nd but Behind Ricciardo and Verstappen as well. Then the WCC goes to Red Bull and that's a risk Mercedes can't take.

A 4th would do if Hamilton wins (even a 6th would be OK)

1+4: 25+12=37 (1+6: 25+8=33)
2+3: 18+15=33

Taxi645 · 4 Dec 2016, 12:17 (Ref:3693540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gert

A 4th would do if Hamilton wins (even a 6th would be OK)

1+4: 25+12=37 (1+6: 25+8=33)
2+3: 18+15=33

If he wins yes, but who is to say that Hamilton will automatically win against Ricciardo and Verstappen in equal car? I think their chances would be roughly equal.

gert · 4 Dec 2016, 13:11 (Ref:3693556)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If he wins yes, but who is to say that Hamilton will automatically win against Ricciardo and Verstappen in equal car? I think their chances would be roughly equal.

Nobody of course, but Mercedes car2 won't be behind the Red Bulls all the time either.
There are tracks where it will have an advantage and be in front 'by default'.

As the seasons goes on and Mercedes driver 2 gets to know his car better, I think he will get all the more closer to Hamilton.

**Aysedasi** · 4 Dec 2016, 13:55 (Ref:3693569)

Of course all this presupposes that Mercedes will retain their advantage under the new regs..... I'm hoping for a more equal playing field.....

wdave0 · 4 Dec 2016, 14:20 (Ref:3693571)

I may be hallucinating but I recall some discussion of Alonso having an escape clause from McLaren. They certainly have not given him a competitive car. He might be an easy poach.

BSchneiderFan · 4 Dec 2016, 14:30 (Ref:3693575)

Toto has said he doesn't want to interfere with Ferrari and McLaren. I think he's enjoying this hugely. Still think Wehrlein will have his bum in that Mercedes before long.

Taxi645 · 4 Dec 2016, 14:48 (Ref:3693581)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Toto has said he doesn't want to interfere with Ferrari and McLaren. I think he's enjoying this hugely. Still think Wehrlein will have his bum in that Mercedes before long.

Of course he will say that. Don't look over eager, doesn't help in negotiations.

djinvicta · 4 Dec 2016, 16:01 (Ref:3693589)

In January last year, when Hamilton was dithering over a contract extension, Wolff told reporters: "Alonso represents the first alternative."

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