Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 Jan 2020, 04:12 (Ref:3953240)   #2576
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
Terence, dont know what kind of settings you'll go for but from experience if the suspension is close to original drawing too much castor doesn't give vey good results… As a mate told me, "its not a Porsche, you stupid!".
😂No, not too far off original, but should be enough. Find out in March😉
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 25 Jan 2020, 06:19 (Ref:3953252)   #2577
delta
Subscriber
Veteran
 
delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United Kingdom
Reading UK
Posts: 8,693
delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!delta has a real shot at the podium!
March 2020 Tel. 👍
delta is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2020, 17:32 (Ref:3961774)   #2578
lotustwincam
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
United Kingdom
Posts: 73
lotustwincam should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
600lb Cortina Spring Rates!!

Following the tangent on Baubles Photo thread I was interested in why Cortinas with such stiff front springs did not understeer like mad?
lotustwincam is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 08:10 (Ref:3961861)   #2579
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Don't forget to add in 1" or even 30mm ARB's

7 degrees caster may have something to do with it, std geometry obviously.

I think mines about 500lb and 24mm ARB . . . All of my teeth are still attached.

There must be a correlation between suspension settings and bodyshell/cage prep. I gave up some years ago now so have no idea what the latest craze is.

BoT . . . only winter project I've done is fit a spot lamp on my Lambretta because as stylish as BErtones design was, a rectangle headlight is rubbish for projecting light! Oh, I did build a new 240cc engine for another one as well.
Attached Thumbnails
GP lamp.jpg  
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 08:58 (Ref:3961866)   #2580
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Nice Lambretta. I guess the average Vespa user totally ignores what he's missing! The Rumi was fine too.

Finishing to refurbish a crashed MX5 with few enthusiasm because the specific regulation doesn't allow to adapt a more track adapted final ratio. If you loose the 5th gear, you won't even notice!

Re the caster I'm too old to cope with such a figure on a real Mac Pherson suspension. And this kind of front arb diameter is more useful when building a house… Original geometry on Capris gives 0,5 to 1,5° which is too few but gives an idea of the starting point…
Lotustwincam, I'm with you, this is a tangent!!!
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 09:18 (Ref:3961869)   #2581
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Lotus Cortina had 3 degrees in period for racing . . . . with standard parts it's about 1. I have 3 . . . . no idea how you get 7 and everything still moves! the top mounts tear to pieces . . .unless they are spherical bearings

Mot Rumi was a quality machine, the competizione won the 24hr Bol d'Or 3 times ?
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 09:36 (Ref:3961880)   #2582
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
Lotus Cortina had 3 degrees in period for racing . . . . with standard parts it's about 1. I have 3 . . . . no idea how you get 7 and everything still moves! the top mounts tear to pieces . . .unless they are spherical bearings

Mot Rumi was a quality machine, the competizione won the 24hr Bol d'Or 3 times ?
Surely you can move the rear axle forwards so that the castor can be increased without extending the wheelbase? #askingforafriend
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 10:16 (Ref:3961886)   #2583
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Surely you can move the rear axle forwards so that the castor can be increased without extending the wheelbase? #askingforafriend

That is exactly what is done to most LCs.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 10:24 (Ref:3961890)   #2584
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
That is exactly what is done to most LCs.
Really?
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 10:31 (Ref:3961892)   #2585
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotustwincam View Post
Following the tangent on Baubles Photo thread I was interested in why Cortinas with such stiff front springs did not understeer like mad?

They did not understeeras the Yokohama A008Rs that we ran from 1990 to 1996 had so much grip and as the Cortina is quite a tail happy car balancing front and rear grip is relatively easy and the large diameter ARB helps too. Mine was 15/16ths inch. Today many go much bigger, 25 to 30mm now the norm. The LC had a 7/8th inch ARB as standard with 15/16th as a homologated alternative. Preppers today go bigger saying the ARB is a spring and spring rates are free under current App K regs. Although made of spring steel I disagree that an ARB is a spring.


The Yokos needed massive camber to make them work well which made the cars look very much out of period but they were good tyres for quick laps and much quicker than the Dunlop Historic M and L section tyres we changed to in 1997.


As an example I could do 2-01.8s at Oulton Park on Yoko A008Rs but my best on Dunlop Historics was 2-07.5, nearly 5% slower. However, the Dunlops are much more fun to race on.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 11:05 (Ref:3961894)   #2586
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Really?

Didn't catch the irony. Sorry.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 11:06 (Ref:3961895)   #2587
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta View Post
March 2020 Tel. 👍
That went Quick Iain. Just waiting on a pair of seats. Require a pair for the class its going in here.
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 12:10 (Ref:3961901)   #2588
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
They did not understeeras the Yokohama A008Rs that we ran from 1990 to 1996 had so much grip and as the Cortina is quite a tail happy car balancing front and rear grip is relatively easy and the large diameter ARB helps too. Mine was 15/16ths inch. Today many go much bigger, 25 to 30mm now the norm. The LC had a 7/8th inch ARB as standard with 15/16th as a homologated alternative. Preppers today go bigger saying the ARB is a spring and spring rates are free under current App K regs. Although made of spring steel I disagree that an ARB is a spring.


The Yokos needed massive camber to make them work well which made the cars look very much out of period but they were good tyres for quick laps and much quicker than the Dunlop Historic M and L section tyres we changed to in 1997.


As an example I could do 2-01.8s at Oulton Park on Yoko A008Rs but my best on Dunlop Historics was 2-07.5, nearly 5% slower. However, the Dunlops are much more fun to race on.
First time I saw historics was SIllystone supporting BTCC early 90's . . . supervan aside, one over riding memory was being shocked at cracked bodyshells, particularly wing seams and screen pillars, on an Alfa and a few Cortinas. . . Dunlops are fun
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 14:28 (Ref:3961941)   #2589
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
I seem to remember that any time, any appendix, any series, any country, any car, the arb's diameter is/are free. Going from plain to hollow design is forbidden.
As to the wheelbase, I can't see how you can move an axle staying compliant though… But there's a rather fair tolerance.
Seems that on some LC's, the rear wheels are rather difficult to extract without removing the shocks!

Last edited by Gerard C; 6 Mar 2020 at 14:39. Reason: Wings spats!
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 14:51 (Ref:3961955)   #2590
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Terence, are you looking for Tillet seats? Hard to find a dealer here.
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 15:17 (Ref:3961958)   #2591
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
I seem to remember that any time, any appendix, any series, any country, any car, the arb's diameter is/are free. Going from plain to hollow design is forbidden.
As to the wheelbase, I can't see how you can move an axle staying compliant though… But there's a rather fair tolerance.
Seems that on some LC's, the rear wheels are rather difficult to extract without removing the shocks!
Axle location is a moot point . . . The FIa have all the information they need to nail it down.
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 15:33 (Ref:3961963)   #2592
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
It may just be hearsay but I understand there are moves afoot to police this aspect of the LCs currently on the grid and being built. Watch this space, or that one over there.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 15:43 (Ref:3961968)   #2593
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
I seem to remember that any time, any appendix, any series, any country, any car, the arb's diameter is/are free. Going from plain to hollow design is forbidden.
As to the wheelbase, I can't see how you can move an axle staying compliant though… But there's a rather fair tolerance.
Seems that on some LC's, the rear wheels are rather difficult to extract without removing the shocks!

Where in the FIA Appendix K regs does it mention that ARB sizes are free, Gerard?
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 17:55 (Ref:3961990)   #2594
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Good question of course. I remember several appendixes J, I'll check a K and I do remember Simon Hadfield mentioning that here. Going with Peter, I do remember Simon saying he has the original manual allowing to accurately locate - at least- the front wheels in the engine compartment/ inner sills. Simon's knowledge is huge and Leo's car was really fast.
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 18:04 (Ref:3961994)   #2595
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Probably the reason why the arb's diameter is free is because very few homologation forms have this precision. Stand to be corrected by Peter at least, but the Capri had over the years rear arb going from 10 to 14 mm. Capri again, the Mk1 track is 100.8 ", 2560,3 mm with a tolerance of +/- 50 mm.
LC wheelbase is 97,5", 2476,5 mm with a tolerance of +/- 22 mm if I'm right.
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 18:36 (Ref:3961998)   #2596
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Gerard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
France
My place
Posts: 9,979
Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
Have a look to appendix J 1965 , Chapitre III, Groupe 2 Voitures de Tourisme améliorées, Art. 263, 21 Stabilisateur:
est autorisé le montage d'une barre stabilisatrice du commerce ou barre anti-roulis, ou système similaire. Sorry but this language is my mother's tongue and one of the FIA official…
Gerard C is offline  
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
Quote
Old 6 Mar 2020, 21:17 (Ref:3962034)   #2597
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
Probably the reason why the arb's diameter is free is because very few homologation forms have this precision. Stand to be corrected by Peter at least, but the Capri had over the years rear arb going from 10 to 14 mm. Capri again, the Mk1 track is 100.8 ", 2560,3 mm with a tolerance of +/- 50 mm.
LC wheelbase is 97,5", 2476,5 mm with a tolerance of +/- 22 mm if I'm right.

I checked the 2020 edition of the FIA App K regs on another post in this section and the ARB is free, so I was mistaken. Has this changed recently as I'm sure last time I looked, several years ago, ARBs were not mentioned specifically for Touring Cars.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Mar 2020, 01:29 (Ref:3962055)   #2598
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
Regardless of the diameter that is specified in a particular series a good friend of mine did the original Escort Mexico challenge back in the 70s. He had several ARBs made out of different strength materials that were all the same diameter.
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Quote
Old 7 Mar 2020, 05:28 (Ref:3962077)   #2599
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER View Post
Regardless of the diameter that is specified in a particular series a good friend of mine did the original Escort Mexico challenge back in the 70s. He had several ARBs made out of different strength materials that were all the same diameter.
Used to make our own at CMS Gordon😉😉
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 7 Mar 2020, 05:37 (Ref:3962078)   #2600
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard C View Post
Terence, are you looking for Tillet seats? Hard to find a dealer here.
Its ok Gerard, Im sort of sorted seat wise now. Discovered yesterday that the rear coreplug in the block has started leaking so engine out to do it. "but that one never rots"
Yes it does🙄😠
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winter Projects kickstart Club Level Single Seaters 27 28 Feb 2006 10:43


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.