Entry Fee Refunds

[Alfaholic]

Question from an interested spectator...

The HSCC meeting at Silverstone today resulted in some drivers running in qualifying but not racing due to being reserves, and 1 race halted but not re-started due to an acident on the start line. In either of these cases are the drivers entitled to a full or partial refund on their entry fees? Also what is the situation if you take part in qualifying but are unable to race because of mechanical failure/accident or where your race is cancelled/shortened due to curfews?

[Peter Mallett]

If you enter and are a reserve you can practice in order to establish a grid position but unless there is space due to breakdowns/accident damage, you don't race. Thus you get a partial refund.

If you enter and are not a reserve, practice and don't race due to breakdown/accident, you forfeit your entry fees.

In the case of the third situation (and I'm not looking at my blue book) I think that if the race completes less than 1 lap you get the same refund as that for the "reserve" situation. That is one reason why clubs liked the "safety car" rule. It meant you could run "under the safety car" for the majority of the race thus saving any refunds.

Good question and one which I'm sure others will be able to add to.

[zefarelly]

I think it largely depends on the organisers, I've yet to be been given reserve status, but have recieved full refends after lunching an engine in qualifying (thanks BARC SE)

[dtype38]

I raced at Brands a few weeks ago with the 750 Motor Club. I broke down (terminally) having completed only half of the 20min practice session for a 40min race. I enquired about the posibility of a partial refund and was told that at the point of signing on in the morning I'd forfeit my whole entry fee, because at that point I was declared an entrant and the club had to pay the track owners for me being there. Ho hummm :-(

[Ian Sowman]

I'm not sure why would expect a refund from a club if your car was at fault...

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by dtype38
I raced at Brands a few weeks ago with the 750 Motor Club. I broke down (terminally) having completed only half of the 20min practice session for a 40min race. I enquired about the posibility of a partial refund and was told that at the point of signing on in the morning I'd forfeit my whole entry fee, because at that point I was declared an entrant and the club had to pay the track owners for me being there. Ho hummm :-(

I think you will find that was the MGCC not the 750 motor club.
The MGCC and 750mc normaly say no refunds from 3 days prior to the meeting as do a few others. One club I race with though has given me a half half off the next race with them on 2 occasions that I have told them at sign on that I was unable to take part which I thought was quite generous as they didn't need to refund anything.

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
I'm not sure why would expect a refund from a club if your car was at fault...

You don't ask, you don't get

[Sheila M]

Blue Book (Section E) says:

E.3.3 Refund of entry fees

An entrant shall have the right of a refund of the entry fee only if:

3.3.1 The event is cancelled, or postponed for more than 12 hours, unless the SRs have provided for a specified part to be retained towards administrative expenses.

3.3.2 An otherwise eligible reserve entry is not permitted to take part in the event.

3.3.3 An entry is withdrawn as provided by 3.2.6 [An antrant shall be free to withdraw an entry .... provided the organisers are so informed in writing within three days of the entrant being notified]

3.3.4 An entry is refused

3.3.5 Provision is made in the SRs for full or partial refund to a competitor notifying the organisers IN WRITING prior to a specified date, that he wishes to withdraw his entry.


Hope this helps

[ss_collins]

750 will give you a refund (well most of it) if you are a reserve - practice and don't race. (common in Vee, Stocks and Locos)

[Al Weyman]

I got a raw deal at a ModProd meeting (BARC) at Cadwell one year. There were 5 reserves for the race and I had a problem with the Camaro (puncture or loose wheel I think) and only managed to do 2 laps, it was therefore deemed I had not completed the minimum 3 laps in practice and despite having raced several times before at the venue and knowing the track well and the car being fit to race I was chucked to the back of the reserves (now the only one) and allowed to follow the pack around from the back on the warm up lap incase someone stopped on the warm up. They did'nt, I was flagged into the pits much to the disappointment of the crowd and was not given a refund despite asking for one and I was running the championship in those days and put unpaid hours into the thing can you believe it. Small wonder I got a bit dissolusioned with the whole thisng.

[graeme]

Some of the smaller organisers will give you a full/partial refund if you have problems (and I guess if they haven't made a loss) but generally you don't get anything back off the likes of 750, BARC, BRSCC, etc. unless the meeting is cancelled or you are a reserve. Even then its not much - I think the std BARC entry form says £50 if you don't get to race - its been this amount since entry fees were £120; not so good now fees are in the region of £160+. But in all organisers defence, they have already paid the MSA fee (£30?).

[greenamex2]

BARC-SE seem to refund at every opportunity. I got a full refund at Lydden when the longer of the two races got cancelled due to horrendous weather.

Real result for me as I crashed the car in practice and couldn't make the short race that was run anyway!!!

[dtype38]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
I'm not sure why would expect a refund from a club if your car was at fault...

Well that depends on whether you think the meeting is being run for the benefit of the Organising Club or the Competitor, and who's money it is anyway

[Al Weyman]

No I think it is fair no refund if you car is broken because that would be so open to abuse, take my Camaro especially the 2nd gen (I have never raced the 3rd gen in the wet) if it starts raining for the race I may as well pack up and go home and have actually pulled up at Silverstone once in a downpour as the thing was undrivable (on road rubber). If I could get a rebate I would no doubt have been tempted to tell them the car was broke and cut my losses.

[dtype38]

Completely understand your point, Al, and its certainly a very valid one. It definitely wouldn't work if it was turned into a "pay by the lap" system by some drivers. I'm also sure some drivers could make up some interesting excuses for stopping

My issue is that I'd turned up at the meeting having paid for 1 hour of track time and, through mechanical failure, was only on the track for 10 mins. I spent a bit of time in the garage investigating the problem but it turned out to be terminal. I was very disappointed and packed up to go home, but not before having the courtesy of going to race control to let the organisers know that I would be a non-starter for the race. I simply inquired if that meant I'd lost all my entry fee. IMO most club officials can read the situation all too well, and in my case, something like a partial (even just nominal) credit against my next entry fee would have both cheered me up a bit and given me an incentive to come back racing with that club again. I would have gone away with a feeling of being "fairly treated" and full of praise for the club. As it is, a blanket policy of "Sorry - no refunds" leaves a bad taste and makes me feel like I've just been had at a dodgy second hand car dealers, not participating in a club event with fellow members.

Thank you for this opportunity to have a good rant. I feel a lot better now

[zefarelly]

I got a refund less admin charge for early cancellation recetly, I'm happy with that way of doing things

I'd have thought if you turn up, sign on etc, your included n the days proceedings, which cost, so you won't get much back.

If every car broke in practice and there was no race then what ? the track still has to be paid for ?

[dtype38]

Originally posted by zefarelly
If every car broke in practice and there was no race then what ? the track still has to be paid for ?

I've never seen such a situation. If you have, or even ifyou haven't, its a valid point that the track fees have to be paid regardless of the number of drivers that actually get as far as the grid. But surely all of my entry fee can't be track fees and fixed overheads? This year our SR & GT Challenge have to pay the enty fees for a mimimum grid (usually 16-18 cars) regardless of how small the field is. I assume, therefore, that this is the number of entries that "covers the overheads" and prevents the organisers making a loss. So if we put up a grid of say 28 cars, where do the other 10-12 entry fees go? Couldn't some or all of it be used to give partial refunds to entrants who can't make the grid (and I mean "can't" - not "don't want to")

I don't know! Anyone got a breakdown of exactly how an entry fee is made up and how much, if any, depends on the race actually taking place?

[Al Weyman]

Good points but I still agree with Zafarelly while sympathising with dtype. The last race I ever did in 97 at Donnington was a total catalogue of disasters and that is why I took the decision to pack it all in. It was a two day meeting and started with me dropping a bit of petrol in practice and getting black flagged but because my car was a left hooker could not spot the flag being waved at the chicane approaching the start finish striaght, that cost me a hundred quid and a start from the back of the grid. The come the Sunday the fog rolled in and the whole meeting was cancelled after hanging around all day 'just in case', and did we get a refund? Don't be silly.

[dtype38]

That's seriously depressing Al Don't blame you for giving up for a while after that one.

Maybe it simply a case of supply and demand.... Drivers supply the cars, the skill, the spectacle, the enthusiasm, the determination, and the Dunkirk Spirit.... and for the privalege, organising clubs demand the money hrug:

[graeme]

Originally posted by dtype38
where do the other 10-12 entry fees go?

Subsidising the races with small grids...

[Al Weyman]

When I was running the Falken (now Toyo) Tyres ModProds and entry fees were soaring, fast approaching the £100 watershed and I could see a steep decline in racing members I asked a senior major club official "Would it not be better to have 25 cars on the grid payig £60 than 10 paying a £100? "The answer was "We would rather have the 10 cars, reason it was less work for us", I then asked what about the spectators and said surely they deserved better than this and was told basically, what about them, we dont get the gate receipts so we aren't really interested.

And there my friends lies the reason why we are where we are at today.

(Edited because of spelling errors)