What Next For Edwin Jowsey?

[Andrew Kitson]

I agree too. Marcus is a super bloke and he knows so much!
If ever I am stuck on reference for my work, say the colour of a certain car in an ancient Black and white shot, Marcus usually has the answer. He and Nigel Roebuck ARE 'Autosport' magazine to me, their opinions on the way racing is going or has gone are very akin to mine - the first things I read are their columns, but usually Marcus' one first.

[David McKinney]

Add me to that list too

[ss_collins]

I'll have to ask him what colour brian hentons 1971 Austro - Porsche Vee was...

[simon drabble]

I think you might need to get out more often minus the anorak!!!

[PaulSands]

now now lets remember what the subject of this post is

[ss_collins]

No I actually own the car!!! an don't know what coulor its meant to be!

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by ss_collins
I'll have to ask him what colour brian hentons 1971 Austro - Porsche Vee was...

If it is the same Austro that he raced the year before in 1970, then it would be yellow, according to the old race programme race entries. No photos though, perhaps forum member Ted Walker at Ferret Fotographics would have some?

[JR Ewing]

OK, I was very excited and about to leave for Indy and got very carried away.

I must apologise for any offence, particularly to Marcus Pye, for my earlier remark.

Nonetheless, and while I accept his knowledge bank, I would stand by my thoughts as to the quality of his press comment and journalism.

Back on the thread, I cannot understand how anyone could seriously suggest that Edwin Jowsey is good when you look at what he's driven and who against. I'm not suggesting he isn't a future F1 star, just that I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest that yet. Just one race in an FF1600 (old or modern) against a competitive field would I believe start to show us...

[krt917]

I can see what you're saying and it would be very interesting to see how he went in contemporary championships. However, I think that you may underestimate some of the talent, speed and experience of the top drivers in historic racing. I believe that there are/have been some drivers who would do VERY well in contemporary racing. Names like Willie Green, Martin Stretton and Simon Hadfield come to mind.

You must also remember that, in some cases, historic racing also provides:
1. Cars where the driver's skill has a large impact on the competitiveness of the car (up to a point of course), so that a young driver like Jowsey can prove that he can race before those skills get swallowed up by technology/money.
2. There are established people in many of the series already. Beating them would indicate a certain level of, how shall we say, competence.

The question, of course, is do any contemporary racing team-owners/bosses take any interest in historic racing?

When all is said and done, I think that it's an interesting career path and I wish Mr Jowsey good luck.

[Flagman]

Didn't Andy Wallace start off in something like Historic FF?

[JR Ewing]

LOL. Pre-74 FF that AW did then was an accepted path and would be like pre-97 today...

[PeterMorley]

Originally posted by krt917
I believe that there are/have been some drivers who would do VERY well in contemporary racing. Names like Willie Green, Martin Stretton and Simon Hadfield come to mind.

Martin Stretton has tried contemporary racing - he raced in something like Formula Talbot or Renault before he started historics, and recently he raced in GT races in a competitive Porsche 911. With nothing like the success he has had in historic racing.

Willie Green was a contemporary racing driver when todays historic cars were contemporary, he used to race Ford GT40s as a private entrant in sportscar races.
As a privateer he had no chance to compete with the works entries.

Simon Hadfield worked for Arturo Merzario so has experience of contemporary racing at the highest levels.

There are many historic drivers who have raced contemporary cars - Duncan Dayton does both with reasonable success and Tom Bscher won the FIA GT championship a few years ago (I think he has stopped the contemporary stuff now).

But doing well in modern cars is a totally different kettle of fish, it is notable that these people do a lot of testing, whereas many of their competitors only drive their car at race meetings.
In modern cars everyone does a lot of testing (even at relatively low levels contemporary drivers rarely need to work) so there is no advantage to be gained there (but plenty to be lost if you don't test).
Similar with car setup, data logging (which even Go-Karts run) means nearly all cars are well setup, and all the drivers can see how quick it should go - so it is very hard to gain a car advantage.

Having worked in F3000 before many years in historics I know that they are worlds apart - failing to qualify by 1/10th of a second and finding 2 other cars ahead of you, that also failed to qualify, gives some idea - especially when you are all within a couple of seconds from pole (due to a defective damper).

Also the level of equipment now used in contemporary racing is incredible - shock absorber dynos, chassis dynos (multi post test rigs), all sorts of computer simulations.
If you want to find out whether a historic driver would make a good contemporary driver you would probably do better to sit him in front of a computer!!

[Super Tourer]

Interesting angle Peter.

I remember an interview with Paul Sotddart who was posed a similar question about drivers in the Boss series and how they would figure in a contemporary car.

His view was they only driver he would halfway consider would be Earl Goddard, who has been a consistent front runner in EuroBoss but didn't figure as a front runner in his contemporary racing in either F renault or F3.

Whether this is due to budgets/right place/right time, etc is debatable.

I read the small snippet in Motor Sport too, I would guess that the easiest (and cheapest) way to evaluate Edwin would be with a series of tests in F Renault or F Ford which would give Edwin a feel for a contemporary car and a in a full test day, a barometer to measure against.

We are now into full test mode for next season and virtually all teams will be evaluating drivers for next year - now's the time for him to strike for a lot less outlay than commiting to a full season.

[KA]

Originally posted by PeterMorley
Martin Stretton has tried contemporary racing - he raced in something like Formula Talbot or Renault before he started historics, and recently he raced in GT races in a competitive Porsche 911. With nothing like the success he has had in historic racing.

As I recall, he ran at least a part season in FIA GT in a Franz Konrad 911GT2 in the late 90's with not much in the way of success (can't recall who he shared the car with, although it was Konrad's second-string car which was usually the slower of the two, but probably didn't have as good a driver pairing- didn't Bob Wollek sometimes appear in their no1 car at that time....?), and has done a few 'one-offs' here and there, including a Lotus GT1 Elise at a Donington FIA round. I do remember seeing him in a British GT round at Donington a few years ago (1999?) sharing a 911GT2 with Maxwell Beaverbrook, and from memory he was reasonably quick in it....

It must be a difficult transiton to make- in both directions. After the frist Goodwood Revival meeting, I think Martin Brundle wrote something in Autosport commenting on how difficult he found the historic cars, compared to the likes of Moss and Surtees who had raced those cars when they were current and understood how to get the most out of them

[PeterMorley]

Originally posted by KA
As I recall, he ran at least a part season in FIA GT in a Franz Konrad 911GT2 in the late 90's with not much in the way of success (can't recall who he shared the car with, although it was Konrad's second-string car which was usually the slower of the two, but probably didn't have as good a driver pairing- didn't Bob Wollek sometimes appear in their no1 car at that time....?), and has done a few 'one-offs' here and there, including a Lotus GT1 Elise at a Donington FIA round. I do remember seeing him in a British GT round at Donington a few years ago (1999?) sharing a 911GT2 with Maxwell Beaverbrook, and from memory he was reasonably quick in it....

I recall Stretton sharing a GT2 with Konrad himself, and that Konrad was quicker. Admittedly Konrad must have a lot of experience but he must be getting on a bit (and Stretton had plenty of experience in the car by then).

Given that it was virtually a one-make series in that class of GT racing you would expect a 'super driver' to have shone.

I'm sure there are plenty of drivers in the GT races who are slower than him, but the difference is there are a lot who are just as quick and possibly many who are quicker.
Much better to be a big fish in the small historic pond, and a lot easier to achieve.

(n.b. I see that his ex-wife is doing reasonably well in her recent GT series appearances, but the current series is hardly well supported).

I read the small snippet in Motor Sport too, I would guess that the easiest (and cheapest) way to evaluate Edwin would be with a series of tests in F Renault or F Ford which would give Edwin a feel for a contemporary car and a in a full test day, a barometer to measure against.

I should think his high historic profile should get him in one of the many tests that will be going on in the near future.
His (presumed) lack of experience of data-logging etc would put him at a serious disadvantage to most young kids who've been using it since Karts. But it would be a great way of evaluating him.

Of course to get the test Edwin might have to claim he has a serious sponsor available (the amount expected for even an F.Ford drive these days is frightening).

And having said that contemporary racing is so competitive I'm amazed by how far off the teams allow drivers to be - a couple of seconds off the pace in an F1 test is not seen as hopeless, but that might explain the abundance of mediocre F1 drivers.

It really depends what he wants, if he has the drive, determination, contacts, looks etc and reasonable ability he could make it as a professional driver.
But he could easily fall beside the wayside as many have done before him, and then where does he go?

Or he could stay in historics and be a star, and develop a reasonable income based on his success - as have Stretton, Hadfield, Green, Pearson etc.

[JR Ewing]

At last, some people on here who talk sense about the 'strength' of historic drivers! Wonders will never cease...

I did think Amanda was Martin's daughter though - not his ex-wife?

[TimD]

Amanda Stretton is the daughter of the late Terry Cohn, I believe. Probably the only man ever to fit a towbar to an Alfa Romeo 8c Monza!

[JR Ewing]

Just remembered another good example almost mentioned above.

Bob Berridge.

Absolutely destroyed the TGP field - in a RAM 01 of all things. He did OK in BTCC but nothing that good and he was whole SECONDS ahead in TGP...

[cirrus]

Attempting to be competitive in Formula Renault without much experience of wheel to wheel racing would be a very tall order. At Thruxton in May this year 0.942 seconds covered the first eighteen cars. He's a handy pedaller in historics, but that is a totally different world.

[PeterMorley]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Just remembered another good example almost mentioned above.

Bob Berridge.

Absolutely destroyed the TGP field - in a RAM 01 of all things. He did OK in BTCC but nothing that good and he was whole SECONDS ahead in TGP...

Who is currently Amanda Stretton's boyfriend & GT partner.
(Could someone please tell Martin that they thought Amanda was his daughter, and post a video of it............).

I think Bob Berridge's experience in TGP vs BTCC would be similar to that of most the top Historic drivers.

Had a phone call from a Californian today who has raced in historics & moderns with Duncan Dayton etc. he said that Duncan is a seriously quick driver, but without all the testing and car time Duncan gets he couldn't hope to keep up (that and not having to worry about the cost of damaging the car).

Which makes me think of another big difference - contemporary pilots don't care what happens to the car, they drive it as hard as possible and if it breaks or crashes it gets fixed (and someone else pays).
Most historic drivers tend to show some restrain - those at the front tend to have a more cavalier attitude to damage so they try that bit harder and look that bit better.

Attempting to be competitive in Formula Renault without much experience of wheel to wheel racing would be a very tall order. At Thruxton in May this year 0.942 seconds covered the first eighteen cars. He's a handy pedaller in historics, but that is a totally different world.

Edwin has probably done more historic races than some current F1 drivers did before they reached F1! Of course those kids had done lots of Go-Kart races, but an F1 team now likes someone who doesn't think he knows how to drive a car - the computer tells the driver how quick to go!

But FRenault has a lot more wheel to wheel racing than F1!, so the lack of close racing would probably show more in FR than F1!

The times in Formula Renault give some idea of how competitive contemporary racing is, and that is just the tip of the iceberg - practice sessions are very short and close together, the team barely has time to make changes, no luxury of trying lots of different setups during practice.

[PeterMorley]

A fellow competitor of Young Edwin rang today.
He says that Edwin competed in a contemporary winter series last winter - and did not set the world alight.

[BillyFox]

What's happening with Edwin next year?
He's probably the most naturally talented British racing driver we've seen for years! He's only seventeen but drives with such maturity. I'm also led to believe he's self-taught. I'm getting concerning that this talented teenager may go waste as the fat cats in motor sport, and the money-grabbing greedy parasites will not recognise the talent he possess unless he has three-quarters of a million in his pocket! Even now at Edwins age he's more than capable of driving in F1.

[krt917]

Blimey. As my posts above suggest, I'm a fan of historic racing and of Mr Jowsey, but even I think a jump into F1 now might be a bit much!

[PaulSands]

I saw him and his father at the Renault World Masters at Donington in October...fishing around for potential FR drive maybe?

[El_Gibleto]

Sorry to sound a negative note, but having been at several hscc meetings during the year and closely watched several of the Derek Bell trophy races that Edwin drove in. I honestly don't think that he is an exceptional talent, in the F5000 car he was basically a "point & squirt" flooring the throttle when the car was on the straight and not carrying any speed through the corners, something that was obvious just by listening to the engine note.

If he is to have a serious career in comtemporary racing he must learn how to maintain speed through the corner.