Historic Rallies

[john ruston]

Expected results as only about five or six competitive crews and three mentioned are way better than the rest.

I am not sure allowing all these gizmos is a good thing,should be cars trip only but how do you police it ?

There are a few proper cars but others resemble pre war stuff.

[john ruston]

Have been thinking about eligibility for rally's.

If you introduced HTP papers as an example you would lose half entries.

FIVA papers are needed for MM but have never understood on what basis they are awarded.

I remember on Alpine Rally a few years ago a TR2 had big disks and I asked him how.

He explained that he needed them on mountain sections and kept a straight face.

I was sitting in a 1934 Talbot in original condition while he explained this to me!

[john ruston]

Pre 18 cars are commited to WW1 Royal rally London to Ypres or they could have done Trial

[Derwent Motorsp]

Perhaps we need a section of the forum for Historic rallies? There are fundamentally two types of historic events, those one day events run by motor clubs and the longer commercial type events run for the very rich which vary from being a tour with the odd test or regularity to a real rally like the RotT.

[john ruston]

Toughest Pre War rallies are Flying Scotsman and Alpine Trial .

Probably the present trial is much the same as those and similar to Rally of the Tests

Can't see a thread working as unless it's about V8's,Saloons or upmarket meetings they usual stop after a couple of pages.

Why do you you always harp on about the rich doing these things as we are not short of PAYE people coming on the events or retired old farts like me who started in a council house. And spends all his money on cars which annoys a few people around me.

You are only here once!

Others save their dosh and do one or two a year.

Any form of Motorsport is expensive and rally's are certainly cheaper and better value than racing.

The full on scratch stuff in an eighty year old car if quite exciting with those drum brakes that do not really work.

Whatever makes your boat float!

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Toughest Pre War rallies are Flying Scotsman and Alpine Trial .

Probably the present trial is much the same as those and similar to Rally of the Tests

Can't see a thread working as unless it's about V8's,Saloons or upmarket meetings they usual stop after a couple of pages.

Why do you you always harp on about the rich doing these things as we are not short of PAYE people coming on the events or retired old farts like me who started in a council house. And spends all his money on cars which annoys a few people around me.

You are only here once!



Others save their dosh and do one or two a year.

Any form of Motorsport is expensive and rally's are certainly cheaper and better value than racing.

The full on scratch stuff in an eighty year old car if quite exciting with those drum brakes that do not really work.

Whatever makes your boat float!

Looking back, I could never afford to go rallying. But still did, and still do. Can't help it, it's in the blood. Image shows me wielding a shovel during an early Monte Carlo Challenge

[Derwent Motorsp]

I've been involved in rallying for over 40 years as a driver, navigator and a very experienced organiser so I think I can comment. Most of the "commercial" rallies are aimed, very cleverly, at a certain market, one which perhaps did not exist 20 years ago. In rallying circles they are described as for "Sunday Times" readers and that is the way the marketing goes. All good luck to them. But most of these events are not anything like as tough as the road rallies of old like the "Motoring News" rounds with 200 miles plus of plot and bash and 50 mile selectives! They are not as tough as most of the HRCR rounds or the NESCRO events which feature 20 special tests and a few regularities in a six or seven hour day. Of the commercial events I would say only the Rally of the Tests is of that level of competition and that event does get some really good crews out who usually mainly do the HRCR/NESCRO type events.
The Flying Scotsman and LE JOG are really quite mild in comparison but they have their market which is mainly not from the motor club type of competitor.

[john ruston]

So take your pick!

Fred Gallagher does our rallies these days and enjoys them and I think the stuff he did was slightly tougher than a MN job.

I used to read Verglas and remember Tony Pond dragging through a few stages.

A Pre War car in the Alps against a bogie time is not to shabby.

Doubt if you could do a MN type rally with a competitive team at much less than 10k an event these days.

Sure Lloyds of Stafford used to spend a fortune with the flying dentist Harold in your good old days.

Each to his own and do whatever you think you can or nearly can afford.

It's a pastime for all of us.

I like to see those fancy Ferraris at Goodwood but will never be able to afford one .

Why worry

[retrognome]

Hm. I did a few MN events. It was the same then. Those like me started well down, finished well down, and never met the Colin Francis of that world. They had finished the rally, eaten their greasy breakfast and left for home with the silverware by the time I had given up on selective one or two.

Philip Young along with Don Pither (the nice guy of the pair) created historic rallying as we know it today. And it was Philip who high jacked a friendly sport and turned it into a past time for the rich.

The HRCR Road Rally Championship is dominated by Porsche 911s or Escorts, cars are purchased not because of emotion but on their ability to perform.

One thing that struck me about the 1000 Mile Trial today, the majority of crews seemed to be having a good time. Rich they may be, enjoying life? Definitely.

[gary396]

On rallies such as the current 1000-mile do the organisers release the actual route ahead of a particular day or is that only given to crews on the morning / night before?

The reason I ask is trying to figure out road routes between the published spectator viewing areas on Thursday - I'd rather see them on the road rather than parked at lunch-stops etc. The afternoon session in particular has the potential for some good 'scenic viewing routes' between lunch at Craythorne Hall and the later Harewood Hill test.

[john ruston]

Bugger when all these 'rich' people enjoy life.

The entrants get the route either an hour or day before .

Changes rally to rally

Colin Francis came to regularity side of thing!

So four of us have kept this thread going for three pages.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by john ruston

So four of us have kept this thread going for three pages.

Others are watching it as you always have something interesting/obtuse to say.

[Derwent Motorsp]

We were manning a test today at Shap, one we use ourselves, and it was a superb display of cars. All the crews were frighfully nice and polite! Obviously some crews were taking it more seriously than others and others were not being serious at all. it was sunny and warn so all the cars had their hood down.

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

We were manning a test today at Shap, one we use ourselves, and it was a superb display of cars. All the crews were frighfully nice and polite! Obviously some crews were taking it more seriously than others and others were not being serious at all. it was sunny and warn so all the cars had their hood down.

Yesterday there was a test at Shelsley Walsh. The venue and the weather were provided the perfect anti-dote to a day of rough and tumble photography at Castle Combe. Guess which was which.

[Lancsbreaker]

I was running an end-of-regularity near Oulton Park on Monday and it was good to see a nice selection of cars, with almost everybody cheery and enjoying themselves - it only got a bit frantic when we had 4 cars arrive within 10 seconds - with the second to arrive only "just" stopping behind the first......

Even the Aussie guys in the Riley who arrived about five minutes after the course closing car were in good spirits!

As a died-in-the-wool Alfisto I just loved Alistair Caldwell's beautiful 6C - although the two Whyte sisters in the little Austin gained bonus points for maintaining their matching hair bows in fine fettle

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I was running an end-of-regularity near Oulton Park on Monday and it was good to see a nice selection of cars, with almost everybody cheery and enjoying themselves - it only got a bit frantic when we had 4 cars arrive within 10 seconds - with the second to arrive only "just" stopping behind the first......

Even the Aussie guys in the Riley who arrived about five minutes after the course closing car were in good spirits!

As a died-in-the-wool Alfisto I just loved Alistair Caldwell's beautiful 6C - although the two Whyte sisters in the little Austin gained bonus points for maintaining their matching hair bows in fine fettle

They certainly enjoy themselves considering the car musters around 20 bhp.

[Tel 911S]

Although Phillip Young has been credited with " Inventing Classic Rallying " , he only started one type of event ,& by no means invented a new thing .

Many years before his Endurance Rallying company started there were rallies for classic cars . The Tulip Rally in Holland had a classic section running along with the main event when I was doing it through the 1980s .[ The Dutch were probably into classics before most others ].

A lot of the European Championship rallies that I did now have a Classic / Historic section , & these are usually a full stage rally type of event .

There is a market for P. Y. s type of touring / regularity events , but the full on Historic stage rallies are now very popular throughout Europe & especially in the UK.l

[john ruston]

"Can't believe Philip Young is such a polarising personality!"

[Derwent Motorsp]

Originally Posted by john ruston

"Can't believe Philip Young is such a polarising personality!"

He is an "interesting" character. He has had lots of interesting money making ideas over the years including two good magazines. Some ideas worked others didn't (like Endurance rallying and the Lombard Revival). I doubt if you will find he has many fans though!

As regards historic rallies, I think, in the UK, the RAC's Golden Fifty Rally got things going in terms of special test events and the MSA introduced historic road rally regulations in 1989. There had been the odd stage event on tarmac like the Coronation Rally earlier than that.

[retrognome]

The formation of the Historic Rally Car Register in 1983 saw an explosion of interest among UK owners of competition type classic cars. Stage events, road regularity/special test/navigation rallies, both night and day and then the adventure events came along, the Marathon and Monte Carlo Challenge. There were few events, with great entry lists, sometimes, hitting 300. Thing is because of the scarcity, we all did the same rallies, and to win, really meant something, finishing was also an achievement, you automatically competed against the very best. Now the competition is diluted because choice is so wide. Times move on, and so many factors play a part. Long live historic rallying. And did I tell you, I won a Gold Medal on an earlier Le Jog in a Lancia Appia with just 38bhp.

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by retrognome

And did I tell you, I won a Gold Medal on an earlier Le Jog in a Lancia Appia with just 38bhp.

I bet you couldn't have been 'appier!

I'll get me coat....

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I bet you couldn't have been 'appier!

I'll get me coat....

I would. About 200,000 others have used that by-line. Having said that, I don't think I've ever been happier than when driving my Appia. Probably the most sophisticated small family car ever produced, except maybe the Aprillia. Designed with passion by engineers, ignoring any financial implications. Thats why Lancia went broke.

[gary396]

Spent an enjoyable afternoon watching the (1000-Mile Trial) cars passing through North Yorkshire. Just a few examples from me - the first one at their lunchtime stop at Crathorne Hall Hotel, the remainder as they traversed the North Yorkshire Moors south of Osmotherley heading towards Harewood Hill later in the afternoon:

[retrognome]

Originally Posted by gary396

Spent an enjoyable afternoon watching the (1000-Mile Trial) cars passing through North Yorkshire. Just a few examples from me - the first one at their lunchtime stop at Crathorne Hall Hotel, the remainder as they traversed the North Yorkshire Moors south of Osmotherley heading towards Harewood Hill later in the afternoon:

Very nice.

[gary396]

Originally Posted by retrognome

Very nice.

Thanks Peter.