Msv & Brscc

[avro]

There is a rumour, and I stress rumour that due to the excessive circuit hire price rises, BRSCC are contemplating not using / limiting use, of any MSV circuits in 2007 !!

Anyone else heard of this.

[Ian Sowman]

Well, if they do it is only part of an ongoing trend. In 2005, 23 BRSCC meetings ran at MSV circuits. In 2006, the figure was 15.

[Rod Birley]

BRSCC have three meetings provisionally booked at Brands for next year (including FF Festival). However, EERC are not now running any, instead they are buying space at other clubs meetings.

[nyssa7]

Originally Posted by avro

There is a rumour, and I stress rumour that due to the excessive circuit hire price rises, BRSCC are contemplating not using / limiting use, of any MSV circuits in 2007 !!

Anyone else heard of this.

Nick

I heard something similar at the BRSCC do last week, wasn't put quite in those terms but the message was similar. Came from the organiser of another series who usually seems to be on the ball, so quite likely to have some substance

[Chris Y]

Are you sure that wasn't "on some substance"?

This sounds like a shot in the foot for the BRSCC if true.

[Peter Mallett]

Never needed to be a BRSCC member so not really up on things but I always associated BRSCC with Brands Hatch, Snetterton, Cadwell and of course Oulton Park. If this really happens they'll presumably struggle to run meetings because the other circuits will be booked by BARC etc. in preference to a visiting club.

BARC is now in control of (or the organising club at) Pembrey, Thruxton, Mallory and Croft.

[Rod Birley]

At the risk of going over the circuit costs again, it is true that Brands costs in excess of £25,000 per day to hire, as does Donington. Insurance per car is about £21, timekeepers are about £1200 per day and so on etc... If you receive the Demon Tweeks newsletter you will see their comments about grid sizes. If they are below 25 they are not viable at these circuits. The organisers have to take a "risk" that competitor numbers will remain high next year BUT the signs are that some categories will decline. Even DT&R (with 90 different drivers) only saw 6 drivers compete in all ten rounds.
For the record the BRSCC are planning six meetings at Oulton Park (all single day), two at Cadwell, three at Snetterton (all two day). Snetterton seems to be less and less popular with drivers, so again the economics come into question.
Basically if fewer meetings means better quality is this the right way to go. This season we had some weekends when there were 11 race meetings on at the same time. Marshals are becomming more wary of attending race meetings when entry lists are low, and who can blame them.

[Rod Birley]

I should add that the BRSCC are planning six (two day) meetings at Rockingham, five at Silverstone (2 two day, 1 three day),four at Mallory, two at Pembrey, one each at Anglesey and Croix.

[Claire]

The message from the Chairman at the BRSCC awards evening last weekend was that race meetings will only be run if profits can be made. As already mentioned the cost of hiring Brands is becoming too high for meetings where there are low grid numbers. Overtime I see that MSV are going to raise their costs beyond most of the clubs and I guess that will mean either a larger entry cost to the driver or double headers at the circuits that are cheaper to hire.
As a BRSCC member and a marshal I am saddened that we aren't able to run as many meetings at MSV circuits as we have in the past Brands, Snetterton and Oulton are 3 of my favourites.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

I should add that the BRSCC are planning six (two day) meetings at Rockingham, five at Silverstone (2 two day, 1 three day),four at Mallory, two at Pembrey, one each at Anglesey and Croix.

None at Donington ???

Jim

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Claire

As already mentioned the cost of hiring Brands is becoming too high for meetings where there are low grid numbers.... I guess that will mean either a larger entry cost to the driver or double headers at the circuits that are cheaper to hire.

There is another option. If the equation is hire cost vs grid number and you have no control over one half (hire cost) then do something about the half you do have some control over.

If you need at least 25 cars on the grid to make a meeting financially viable then why do clubs continue to run series that struggle to get into the high teens? It's something we've discussed time and time again on this forum. Prune the dead wood and combine classes if that's what's needed.

[Claire]

I agree, I marshaled a meeting in September that had 8 Formula Fords entered and two of them took each other out on the first corner of the first lap of qualifying! How can that be good for the club or the bank balance. Maybe this will encourage the clubs to do more about their grid sizes, we will have to wait and see.

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by Claire

I agree, I marshaled a meeting in September that had 8 Formula Fords entered and two of them took each other out on the first corner of the first lap of qualifying! How can that be good for the club or the bank balance. Maybe this will encourage the clubs to do more about their grid sizes, we will have to wait and see.

With out wishing to stir things more I think the BRSCC have been the most prolific club which consistently ran meetings with very few cars ! hence their bad financial record - in years gone by when John Webb was about they had some support from BH which supported new series and helped in the income versus numbers game. Thats long gone so they should stick with known series which can produce good grids, keep off DT&R though cos that could be the kiss of death !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rod Birley]

Another driver keeps reminding me of the infamous three car F.3000 race a few years back. The safety car was deployed when a crisp packet blew onto the circuit (this was at Brands by the way).
BRSCC do not show anything for Donington at present (probably even more expensive than Brands!!), although MSV have a date there.

[brickkicker]

I should add that the BRSCC are planning six (two day) meetings at Rockingham

I guess that will be the ASCAR/Pickup truck racing though.

[Jamie G]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

I should add that the BRSCC are planning six (two day) meetings at Rockingham, five at Silverstone (2 two day, 1 three day),four at Mallory, two at Pembrey, one each at Anglesey and Croix.

I have to say that I did the BRSCC Thunder Sunday Saloon meet at Rockingham and it was brilliant - great circuit and good facilities for the car. Two 15 min races and practice (plus a pit garage) for £150.

I'll definitely be looking out for it next year - if they still do it I'd thoroughly recommend it.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by brickkicker

I guess that will be the ASCAR/Pickup truck racing though.

Yes, but at each meeting there will be a support programme.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

BRSCC do not show anything for Donington at present (probably even more expensive than Brands!!), although MSV have a date there.

BRSCC are running the Lotus 7 50th Anniversity Festival at Doners

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Jamie G

I have to say that I did the BRSCC Thunder Sunday Saloon meet at Rockingham and it was brilliant - great circuit and good facilities for the car. Two 15 min races and practice (plus a pit garage) for £150.

I'll definitely be looking out for it next year - if they still do it I'd thoroughly recommend it.

Yeah good was'nt it Jamie!

Just a thought and no doubt the MSA would stick the kybosh on this, but when they (the clubs) issue entry forms and are getting a slow response or prehaps the championship is starting to fail that they can have the option to sell other places on the grid at short notice at a discounted price on an allcomers basis, maybe advertise them on here like in fact we heard about the Rockingham race earlier in the year. Bit like a standby fare or last minute holiday, do you see what I am getting at, even offer places on the grid to other drivers on the day even if it was just fifty quid or so it would help surely? What it would need of course is that magic ingrediant and a word that does not seem to be in the organising bodies volcabulary, flexibility, because I bet they will always find a reason why this cannot be done. How many times have you been to a meeting had a good race and fancy more but of course that cannot be done even if there are room on other grids.

[Ian Sowman]

Exactly that has been tried on a few occasions this season to my knowledge.

The only slight issue is that people who pay full whack might be a bit miffed. Indeed, they might delay their entry until the last moment to get a discounted price...

[Al Weyman]

Well the answer to that is not to allow registered entants for the championship, only guests from other championships.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Yes, but at each meeting there will be a support programme.

That'll be the VSR series then.

Legends is going to be joined at the hip with Pickups in 2007

So that fills up the meetings then.

Unless they decide to run some races on the Saturday as well as the Sunday.

The ASCAR's will be going back to a 20-30lap sprint race, with a 50lap feature race next year. Probably running on E85 too (hence 50 lap feature race, and not 60 lap because the MSA won't let them refuel in pitstops)

I feel that this could be the year that makes or breaks the BRSCC. If they can re-group and run profitable meetings, then they'll survive. If not, it'll be down the tubes.

Rob.

[Mark Bailey]

Could this not be a transitional phase by MSV to move other clubs off their circuits before launching their own championships.

I see they are behind the new Lotus elise and derivatives based championship which looks a really good idea.

As Jamie and Al said Rockingham was a lot of fun and good value.

[simes43]

The BRSCC's have governed their own demise by allowing poorly supported championships to continue year after year. Hence their high costs.

Their lack of regard for the paying competitor is dreadful. Their grasp of economics laughable.

One less club, especially if it were to be the BRSCC, would benefit everyone.

[Tim Draffan]

Also not owning any circuits of thier own leaves them vunerable and at the mercy of the other clubs/ circuit owners.