BTC Production

Speeddemon555 · 26 Dec 2001, 22:41 (Ref:189769)

Yep, I kinda like the Productions in the BTCC Series to go up against the Tourers. I watch a few BTCC races here in the States and its a great format. Simon Harrison and James Kaye will be competing for the 2002 BTC Productio Championship. Harrison won with class in the productions than that idiot Plato. Will Simon move up with the Tourers next year in a Peugeot?

redshoes · 26 Dec 2001, 23:02 (Ref:189775)

I'd like to think that Simon will be in a Tourer next year. Peugeot is pretty much out of the question, unless it's privately run and I can't see many teams wanted to run an ex-works Pug. After that the options get a bit thin on the ground - either Proton or Honda. Then again he does have some past links with Honda.

runnyhunny · 27 Dec 2001, 12:27 (Ref:189893)

Why wouldn't anyone want to run a 406 coupe?

Surely, as a private car, it's quite attractive. It's almost on the pace of the Astra, ahead of the MG, and *WELL* ahead of the Lexus and Alfa.

Simon Harrison and James Kaye have had their chance in the 'main' class many years ago. Neither of them were any good. I say leave them in Production, and get stars like Simon Graves into those spare Proton/Honda seats!

redshoes · 27 Dec 2001, 14:02 (Ref:189936)

Quote:

Originally posted by runnyhunny
Why wouldn't anyone want to run a 406 coupe?
Surely, as a private car, it's quite attractive. It's almost on the pace of the Astra, ahead of the MG, and *WELL* ahead of the Lexus and Alfa.

Are you kidding? Even with the Astra's 30kg ballast and Muller/Plato's 60kg the Pugs were never 'almost on the pace'. Remember that the Astra don't have to carry that ballast next year (at least not initially). MG never ran enough races in the dry to properly assess it's potential but from what I saw it certainly out-handles the 406 already and just needs a winter of development. The Lexus has the potential, it justs needs a bit more work. The Alfas... hmmm... I'll give you that one

That said I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising team picks them up.

Quote:

Simon Harrison and James Kaye have had their chance in the 'main' class many years ago.

Harrison's chance was as a rookie number two in the Peugeot 405, possibily the worst SuperTourer ever built. Hardly a fair shot.

**touringlegend** · 27 Dec 2001, 16:22 (Ref:189961)

Peugeot never have the luck!

I would like to think the Lexus will be a good car, apparently VLR found a few major things wrong with it. If Soper's in that car it should fly.

**Craig** · 27 Dec 2001, 17:54 (Ref:189985)

Quote:

Originally posted by touringlegend
Peugeot never have the luck!

You make your own luck in this life. As Peugeot never really committed properly to the series, they didn't deserve to get anywhere.

**touringlegend** · 27 Dec 2001, 19:14 (Ref:190020)

Very true.

That's what gets me. The 406 won with Aiello in Germany in 1997(I think) with modifications, yet none of these were ever carried over into the BTCC car. Why??

**Craig** · 27 Dec 2001, 19:20 (Ref:190021)

hmmm... seem to remember the Vectra being reasonably competitive over there too ? Was a real dog here during the same period of time...

redshoes · 27 Dec 2001, 20:35 (Ref:190086)

The Germany 406's were built by Peugeot France, the UK ones were built by MSD. Alledgedly Pug France had lots of extra tweaks and much more powerful engines but they wouldn't let MSD use them as they they didn't want the possibility of their secrets failing into rivals hands. Their theory being that when the contract was over MSD would be working for another manufactorer and would pass on information.

There's also the problem that each manufactorer could only homologate one aero kit and both Peugeot and Opel built theirs for the long fast straights of German circuits rather than the shorter, twistier UK tracks. Quite how much difference it made is anyones guess, but Cleland managed to use that excuse for at least 2 years until the FIA changed the rules and let Opel and Vauxhall homogate different kits.

Radisichrox · 28 Dec 2001, 01:54 (Ref:190227)

Hmmm, interesting insights here. I always wondered why Aiello won the German Championship while Peugeot were still struggling with their 406.

As for the comments about the Peugeot 405 being a bad car, I don't think it should be called a bad car. Robb Gravett in 1993 managed to get a couple of good finishes in the top 6 (I think like 2 or 3). Patrick Watts was always a dark horse in the 405, in 1994 and 1995. He got 2 podiums in 95, and was almost always on the pace, (or a little off) in 94.

However, you do have to admit though that there was definetly room for improvement on all of those cars. They never had the funding they deserved, and for a while in the mid 90s, they did a fantastic job with what they had. 96 and 98 were just terrible for Peugeot, even though in both of those years quite capable drivers were at the wheel of them.

**touringlegend** · 28 Dec 2001, 08:06 (Ref:190278)

You forgot about 2001!

One site I was visiting had the news from 1994, and at the Oulton round, where Alfa were penalised points, I noticed Peugeot were 4th in the manufacturers points. This must have been early season though.

Peugeot never seem to have the commitment to the BTCC as Craig said, don't they see if they did they would win??:confused:

MJB RETURNS · 28 Dec 2001, 10:53 (Ref:190303)

let them go else where, if they dont want to stay and start inproving the car then they aint prepered to put more effert in

Aidan J Harvey · 28 Dec 2001, 21:25 (Ref:190614)

Quote:

Originally posted by Radisichrox

As for the comments about the Peugeot 405 being a bad car, I don't think it should be called a bad car. Robb Gravett in 1993 managed to get a couple of good finishes in the top 6 (I think like 2 or 3). Patrick Watts was always a dark horse in the 405, in 1994 and 1995. He got 2 podiums in 95, and was almost always on the pace, (or a little off) in 94.

The reason for the success in most of 1994, was that they used the 1993 car, which had been good at the end of the previous season. Results started to go downhill when they finally got the true 94 car and the same could be said for 95.

**touringlegend** · 29 Dec 2001, 13:01 (Ref:190983)

Thanks Aidan!

I think the Pug paint job was always the worst in the BTCC as well. Except for '96 with the TOTAL paint job!

Radisichrox · 29 Dec 2001, 23:02 (Ref:191272)

Quote:

Originally posted by Aidan J Harvey

The reason for the success in most of 1994, was that they used the 1993 car, which had been good at the end of the previous season. Results started to go downhill when they finally got the true 94 car and the same could be said for 95.

Wow, I didn't know that! So I can happily assume that the sound of the Peugeot from inside sounds somewhat like the 93 car...

Radisichrox · 29 Dec 2001, 23:09 (Ref:191279)

Quote:

Originally posted by touringlegend
Thanks Aidan!

I think the Pug paint job was always the worst in the BTCC as well. Except for '96 with the TOTAL paint job!

Some of them were quite an eyesore. The 92-94 cars were a little ugly, but I liked the headlights on the 93 car. 96 was, yes, a very good looking car. IMHO I think that most of the Peugeots have looked really cool, except the ones I named above.

hunttheshunt · 30 Dec 2001, 20:21 (Ref:191641)

Quote:

Originally posted by redshoes

That said I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising team picks them up.

You mean like Team B&Q Red?

redshoes · 30 Dec 2001, 20:40 (Ref:191649)

Not necessarily

**touringlegend** · 30 Dec 2001, 21:38 (Ref:191691)

I know which team will pick them up!

Team "Why are we using these cars?"

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