Can Alexander Albon survive at Red Bull?

[gert]

Originally Posted by S griffin

As a matter of fact Jarier was the only one who got a race finish in that second car

That's quite possible, I didn't get into the details for why it happened but still: championship contender in 1 car, 0 points combined for the other car.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by GT6

With the fact that Max seems to be able to get the car almost to Mercedes level, Red Bull need to decide if they want to win the manufacturers title they need a better no two driver and they might have to find that away from their usual sources

To be fair, Max is getting the car to do what it is capable of. The car isn't bad, and can only be driven to its maximum capability within the laws of physics.

I think Anthony Davidson referred to it as 'blueprinting' when people asked him if Max was outperforming the car.....he replied that its not possible to do that.

Red Bull certainly need a better driver at the moment. I dont know what they are doing wrong as an organisation but their drivers seem perfectly capable in the junior team, but in the Red Bull they arent cutting it.

Whether its the car that is so skewed design wise to one driver, whether its parts, the engineering team etc etc, but drivers dont become junior team sensations to incapable overnight.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

TI dont know what they are doing wrong as an organisation but their drivers seem perfectly capable in the junior team, but in the Red Bull they arent cutting it.

Whether its the car that is so skewed design wise to one driver, whether its parts, the engineering team etc etc, but drivers dont become junior team sensations to incapable overnight.

Is it just a case of:

1) Last year Gasly binned it in pre-season testing and he never recovered from that mentally, then the pressure built and built and he wilted further. Back in a less pressurised environment he's able to relax more and drive without fear of failure.
2) This years Alpha Tauri is a better car than the Red Bull.
3) Gasly and Kvyat would be no better than Albon in the Red Bull - whilst Albon may well be quicker in the Alpha Tauri.
4) Max is getting the best results of the 4 drivers as he's clearly the best driver.
5) Max would be quicker in the Alpha Tauri.

[S griffin]

Not sure if the Alpha Tauri is necessarily better than the RBR, but it is certainly a top ten contender, which is why Albon, when qualifying badly, has been behind one or both of the Alphas on a few occasions

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Is it just a case of:

2) This years Alpha Tauri is a better car than the Red Bull.

5) Max would be quicker in the Alpha Tauri.

not sure if i agree with these points.

More user friendly yes, a better car? certainly not. there isnt THAT much of a difference between the level of the drivers in F1 to account for the 1+ second the AT is off the Red Bull in pace.

Ive no doubt Max would do better than the current AT drivers in that car, but he wouldnt get the AT further up the field than the RB is right now.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I would hardly describe Albon's tenure at Toro Rosso as him being a rookie sensation. Gasly wasn't notably more impressive (he at least scored such results as 4th at Bahrain) , and since his demotion seems to be the strongest driver that team has had since the days of Sainz and Verstappen.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

6) Red Bull doesn't actually have a good driver development program.

Throw money at such a scheme, and let the laws of probability go to work. Verstappen isn't really that much of a product of theirs.

[S griffin]

It’s not surprising Sainz and Ricciardo left the programme. They knew that they weren’t a top priority for Red Bull, so they have found better places to be in terms of feeling wanted

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

The disposable drivers are the ones they don't want.

haha touche!

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by S griffin

As a matter of fact Jarier was the only one who got a race finish in that second car

It's a long time ago but i am pretty sure Jumper let Laffite through near the finish in one of those races so Jacques got the point.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

6) Red Bull doesn't actually have a good driver development program.

Throw money at such a scheme, and let the laws of probability go to work. Verstappen isn't really that much of a product of theirs.

Max only started driving in a Red Bull livery after he was already signed to Toro Rosso.

Helmut Marko was very impressed by his 3 race wins , 1 of those in the rain at the Norisring and after that signed him to drive for Toro Rosso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfFWWNZDzNY

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Max only started driving in a Red Bull livery after he was already signed to Toro Rosso.

Helmut Marko was very impressed by his 3 race wins , 1 of those in the rain at the Norisring and after that signed him to drive for Toro Rosso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfFWWNZDzNY

Well ok? and there's me thinking they were just desperate to stop Mercedes signing him.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Well ok? and there's me thinking they were just desperate to stop Mercedes signing him.

Merc also wanted him but wanted to give him a GP2 seat, and knowing what happened to Pascal Wehrlein, Esteban Ocon and George Russel I think Max made the right choice.

[Adam43]

Is your point that if those three haven’t managed to get into the works team then there was no hope for Max?

I’d have thought Max would have had a better chance what with him being better.

[Knowlesy]

Surprising lack of faith from Steve there.

You need to believe in Max and get behind him mate.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Surprising lack of faith from Steve there.

You need to believe in Max and get behind him mate.

I have very much faith in Max , he has proven he can perform in a topteam

But Mercedes don't seem to have the same faith in their junior drivers, otherwise we would not have seen George Russel for a 3rd year at Williams next year

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

I have very much faith in Max , he has proven he can perform in a topteam

But Mercedes don't seem to have the same faith in their junior drivers, otherwise we would not have seen George Russel for a 3rd year at Williams next year

Their priority atm is Hamilton with a solid no.2 alongside.

Ocon or Russell would not suit that nor would they want to I suspect.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Their priority atm is Hamilton with a solid no.2 alongside.

Ocon or Russell would not suit that nor would they want to I suspect.

and the same would go for Max if he had chosen Mercedes instead of Red Bull

[Knowlesy]

What if Ocon and Russell just aren't as good as Bottas?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

What if Ocon and Russell just aren't as good as Bottas?

Or Hamilton..

But could be close to Max!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Their priority atm is Hamilton with a solid no.2 alongside.

Ocon or Russell would not suit that nor would they want to I suspect.

I reckon Russell would bite Mercs hand off right now.....

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

What if Ocon and Russell just aren't as good as Bottas?

It's possible. I don't particularly rate Ocon, but I'd love to see Russell in a vaguely decent car.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

What if Ocon and Russell just aren't as good as Bottas?

It's possible. I think Mercedes has a pretty good idea where they stand vs. Bottas.

[S griffin]

Russell is being hampered by his car, but his raw speed is not in doubt. He just keeps putting the Williams up higher than it perhaps should be. I would love to see him in a better car

[greentrumpet]

It's possible. I don't particularly rate Ocon, but I'd love to see Russell in a vaguely decent car.[/QUOTE]

Me neither, trouble seems to follow him. Not convinced he's a team guy and you really have to be good to get away with that stuff.

[Knowlesy]

Ocon was boosted by being a Mercedes programme driver booted out of F1 at the same time as Bottas had an almighty rut of form.

He suddenly and bizarrely became known as a potential Lewis challenger and fans were clamouring to have him back RIGHT AWAY because, as we know, matching Sergio Perez sometimes is the ultimate show of talent. Just what did Toto Wolff think he was doing?

You are never stronger in sport than when you are absent. You become a conduit for the hopes and dreams of fans desperate to see someone else winning.

This is a little bit my fear with Russell, only because he has been barely challenged at Williams. Latifi is doing a good job and Kubica tried his hardest but these aren't really great yardsticks. I do think there is something about Russell that will take him far, but it is easy to say that.