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Old 4 Jun 2001, 03:12 (Ref:100859)   #1
SevenGrain
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SevenGrain should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Chris Kneifel's decision

Chief Steward Chris Kneifel has made the unprecedented call to exclude Tora Takagi from the Milwaukee event following an on-track incident between Takagi and Vasser. Vasser, in third, had Tora move into the side of his car as he tried to pass Takagi. Tora basically blocked Vasser and took him down to the inside wall. They made contact and both cars ended up in the wall. Takagi was a lap down at the time.
Takagi was definitely in the wrong, but don't you think that parking the guy for the rest of the day is excessively harsh? This type of blocking is often seen in CART races and there were two other very similar accidents in the same race today. Is Takagi's mistake ( or bonehead move, depending on your spin) now grounds for exclusion, or only if you are a lap down? After all, Brack executed a very similar blocking tactic on Andretti, but was not black flagged. Applying such harsh penalties can become a serious problem if they are not administered fairly and consistently.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 09:56 (Ref:100956)   #2
Laagri
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Laagri should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that's setting a dangerous precedent.
Takagi was in the wrong, no doubt about that, but still. He is a rookie after all, he's bound to make mistakes, especially on ovals.
I think Andretti was further back from Bräck than Vasser was from Takagi, and I wouldn't like to crticise wither of them (Andretti or Bräck) for that one.
Someone who makes an obviously dangerous move could perhaps be given a drive through or stop and go penalty. And then after the race, when there is more time, the video could be reviewed and a decision made on what further sanctions (if any) to take against the driver.
In my opinion, what de Ferran did in Motegi was far worse, as it was obviously blatant and could have led to some major crashes. Takagi just made a mistake, which Vasser unfortunately had to pay for.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 11:21 (Ref:100974)   #3
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that penalty was insane, as I cannot see anything dangerous that Tagaki did - after watching both incidents closely, I think what Nik did to Big C was an example of what Kneifel SAID Tagaki did. I hope Walker files a protest against this one as it was waaaaaay over the top.

And my opinion of the Mikey Opportunity Knocks Radio Call is just that he is trying to get Kneifel in his back pocket where Wally always lived. God knows the entire broadcast team at ABC has set up residence there too. Sheesh, guys!

Personally I think Kneifel is a loose cannon and if someone doesn't reel him in quickly he's going to ruin the credibility of Champ Cars.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 15:56 (Ref:101052)   #4
marcus
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marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!
this is gonna raise some eyebrows for sure.

I think we are all agreed that takagi was in the wrong..but a simple stop and go or the first penalty of 2 minutes was surely enough.

sure it was silly move on tora's part but it was justa racing incident ..he may not even have know jimmy was there..or he may have thought he was further back that he realy was..who knows what he thought..but possibly a stop go ..a harsh talking to by the stewards and then possibly a fine or something is enough to get the guy to use his mirrors at the next meeting.

I like tora and think he has driven reasonably well this year but to be disqualified was over dramatic of Kniefel's part ..he should know what it is like being a former driver himself..but he's the boss and they have to play by his rules..but now a driver may simply move over when someone pokes their nose on the inside because they dont want to be outed from the race..and that is in no way Racing.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 16:00 (Ref:101055)   #5
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Dario has already been quoted as saying that at least six cars should have been black-flagged for passing him after the "Mystery Yellow" was waved (the Zanardi non-incident).

I predict a long series of Whining for Black Flags until this overdone penalty is rescinded and a proper explanation is given. Chris Kneifel is a sports car driver. What does he know about Champ Cars?
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 17:56 (Ref:101098)   #6
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The penalty may have been harsh but Kniefel has already made it known and perfectly clear he will enforce the rules.

The rules allow a driver to make one move to defend or block but the driver may not swerve or otherwise endnager another racer. Andretti's move to defend against a hard charging Brack was made before Brack was along side and was correct to the rules. Takagi closed the door after Vasser had already assumed he was giving way. Takagi cannot wait until Vasser is alongside him even if by a tire diameter to decide he must assume the racing line.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 17:58 (Ref:101099)   #7
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The penalty may have been harsh but Kniefel has already made it known and perfectly clear he will enforce the rules.

The rules allow a driver to make one move to defend or block but the driver may not swerve or otherwise endnager another racer. Andretti's move to defend against a hard charging Brack was made before Brack was along side and was correct to the rules. Takagi closed the door after Vasser had already assumed he was giving way. Takagi cannot wait until Vasser is alongside him even if by a tire diameter to decide he must assume the racing line.

BTW, Kniefel raced in CART for 4 years in 80s so he can comment on driving ettiquette.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 18:19 (Ref:101105)   #8
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks, KC, I didn't know that about Kniefel driving for Champ Cars, but that was 20 years ago and things have changed, yes?

When I see him give Mikey a race ban, I'll believe he's serious. Otherwise, I think he's overreacting.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 19:14 (Ref:101126)   #9
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Speedworx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Kniefel has also given Tagliani a penalty (can't remember reason). Result is he drops to 12th, Zanardi moves up to 11th.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 19:50 (Ref:101141)   #10
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The penalty may have been harsh but Kniefel has already made it known and perfectly clear he will enforce the rules.

The rules allow a driver to make one move to defend or block but the driver may not swerve or otherwise endanger another racer. Andretti's move to defend against a hard charging Brack was made before Brack was along side and was correct to the rules. Takagi closed the door after Vasser had already assumed he was giving way. Takagi cannot wait until Vasser is alongside him even if by a tire diameter to decide he must assume the racing line.

BTW, Kniefel raced in CART for 4 years in 80s so he can comment on driving ettiquette.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 19:53 (Ref:101142)   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by hakkiman
Kniefel has also given Tagliani a penalty (can't remember reason). Result is he drops to 12th, Zanardi moves up to 11th.
Blocking I believe.

Has anyone seen how Tora was driving before the accident? Apparently was running Vasser to the inside twice before the crash ... but I never saw it on the TV.

As for the penalty... WAY too harsh. That was somewhat Vasser's fault as well. He didn't really have the corner but thought he deserved it. A little patience is a good thing. Look at how many laps it took for Brack to pass Guglemin (I think) when they came up on him (even if it was to stay on the lead lap).

I think they should be using the probation rule (like with Gil). Unless the footage which I haven't seen is damning these kind of decisions are going to blow up in Kniefel's face when he gets it wrong.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 20:09 (Ref:101149)   #12
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The televised footage shows nothing at all different from what Mikey and Brack were doing throughout the race.

The first reaction where I was watching the race (and not by me) was "What's that for - Causing An American To Crash?"

Thanks for the information on The New Dictator's previous OW career, though in 20+ years things have changed just a tad, I think.
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Old 4 Jun 2001, 22:38 (Ref:101220)   #13
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Thanks to my ABC affiliate, I haven't been able to see the race yet. I will comment, though: K Russell did such a bad job replacing Dallenbach that Kneifel may be inclined to show there is strong and decisive leadership back in that position. Russell didn't know how to make the hard calls, and when he did they were wrong!
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Old 5 Jun 2001, 00:16 (Ref:101264)   #14
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There is no question that a penalty was in order, but a 10 second stop and go would have been plenty.

IMO, this was waaaay too harsh, and sets a very dangerous precedent. Correct me if I am wrong, but in oval racing there are no blue flags, thus drivers are not required to yield the same way they are in road races. Thus if one driver wants to lap another, he will have to race for it, within the rules. If a driver blocks, he should be assesed the same penalty as a driver racing at the front: a 10s stop and go.

This was way over the top, and I feel it will take away from the racing on ovals, where races usually only get interesting when the front runners come upon the backmarkers. If the backmarkers are expected to leap out of the way of the front runners, it will be like watching a train of cars go round in circles. If this is what is desired, I say we can do away with all of the ovals.
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Old 5 Jun 2001, 00:52 (Ref:101268)   #15
Liz
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can we write to anyone to express our displeasure? (I think I will write to Derrick Walker and express my support, in any case).

Stupid to have to worry about the officiating as well as the racing.
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