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Old 23 Sep 2022, 10:01 (Ref:4126965)   #256
rdjones
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Originally Posted by codename_47 View Post
Best recently, but for me you can't beat the Clio Cup/Formula Ford/Formula BMW era
I have been to a TOCA meeting for a good couple of years now but I always catch the TV coverage and it's sad to see the Ginetta Juniors go.

Back when I used to go ever round back in the mid-2000's we always used to make sure were around to watch the Clio's and FBMW as they were good entertainment and there was some good talent that came through as well. It will be interesting to see what replaces the Ginetta's.
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 12:19 (Ref:4126975)   #257
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I assure you - everyone involved with implementing the hybrid system is working very hard to deliver a better level of reliability.

That doesn't mean that the deployment criteria should be overlooked though. It's a learning year over what effect the system has on the racing - remember the ballast system was continually being adjusted throughout its use.
I don't doubt they are but to have this many issues after a full year of testing and the number of meetings we've had shows something is fundamentally wrong with the concept IMO.

The only tweaks that should be made are ones that lead to more reliability. Performance and the "show" have to be secondary considerations until reliability is as close to 100% as humanly possible.
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 20:53 (Ref:4127044)   #258
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back in the days when there was real nail biting racing lap after lap with no stupid gimmicks and more robust cars and drivers could realy tell how they felt but of course things are going to plan... we have real exiting touring car racing now...

from 11.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJaDGYV72w
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Old 24 Sep 2022, 11:33 (Ref:4127082)   #259
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
back in the days when there was real nail biting racing lap after lap with no stupid gimmicks and more robust cars and drivers could realy tell how they felt but of course things are going to plan... we have real exiting touring car racing now...

from 11.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJaDGYV72w
So firstly - before I respond - let me say that I totally understand where you are coming from in wanting that type of racing. I can see the appeal - but in terms of 2023, getting something anything like that is near impossible.

And now for the truth:

That race you put forward as 'real nail biting racing lap after lap' was a bigger gimmick than anything BTCC does today. The article I linked above explains why that 1994 AMC season was more like WWE wrestling than Touring Car Racing.

Go back 21 seconds from the timestamp you suggested and look at the qualifying results. Then ask yourself - how can cars with such a performance differential in qualifying produce close racing?
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Old 24 Sep 2022, 13:30 (Ref:4127097)   #260
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MB Motorsport hoping to return to two cars next year.

https://twitter.com/btcc/status/1573...830957059?s=21
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Old 24 Sep 2022, 13:46 (Ref:4127099)   #261
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
MB Motorsport hoping to return to two cars next year.

https://twitter.com/btcc/status/1573...830957059?s=21
Interesting - and thanks for the link.

It will be intriguing to see whether that means away from WSR (maybe in a Ciceley mould)?
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 14:12 (Ref:4127321)   #262
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Gow’s comment in the reverse grid draw seem to suggest that there won’t be a junior championship until 2024, so maybe whatever replaces Ginetta next season will just be temporary.
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 14:18 (Ref:4127324)   #263
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Gow’s comment in the reverse grid draw seem to suggest that there won’t be a junior championship until 2024, so maybe whatever replaces Ginetta next season will just be temporary.
There's not many other than the JSCC and Fiestas? If they wanted something with modern cars (unless I am missing one) it would need to be a new championship, perhaps explaining the year's gap?
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 14:28 (Ref:4127329)   #264
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Interesting - and thanks for the link.

It will be intriguing to see whether that means away from WSR (maybe in a Ciceley mould)?
Quite interesting, I mean, partly I understand such a goal but on the other hand with WSR they have the best possible package.
Btw, it might be just me, but I find it a bit confusing - MB Motorsport seems like a seperate team but technically they are just a third entry of WSR but it raises questions is Dick Bennets boss of this 'team' in the same way he's boss of Team BMW entry? Is MB Motorsport also a 'factory' team of BMW? I know it's been like that for the whole year but I still find it a bit confusing

Also, interesting words from Gow at the end of the race. I wonder if the 'junior' category he's talking about would serve like a bit more 'natural' feeder to the BTCC or does he aspire to make it a category through which British talents might be heading into the international motorsport?
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 16:19 (Ref:4127342)   #265
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Rick Parfitt just confirmed that the Infiniti has reached the end of its life, and the last few races are being seen as a 'send-off'.
So what car will the Moffats look to bring to the grid in 2023?
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 19:30 (Ref:4127401)   #266
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MB Motorsport have a very good partner in WSR, if there was to be a second MB Motorsport entry for 2023 I guess it would likely be a 4th WSR run BMW using a TBL from elsewhere or one of the ones Dynamics and Speedworks gave back... I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 19:33 (Ref:4127403)   #267
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MB Motorsport have a very good partner in WSR, if there was to be a second MB Motorsport entry for 2023 I guess it would likely be a 4th WSR run BMW using a TBL from elsewhere or one of the ones Dynamics and Speedworks gave back... I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.
True and seeing how Hill has gelled with the BMW and potentially he may become a champion in two weeks' time, it'd be a mistake to walk away from the WSR package.
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 19:45 (Ref:4127406)   #268
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Rick Parfitt just confirmed that the Infiniti has reached the end of its life, and the last few races are being seen as a 'send-off'.
So what car will the Moffats look to bring to the grid in 2023?
I was thinking about this after Parfitt said that. One would also imagine that the Vauxhall Astras may be in their final season too given that the bodyshape/model has been in use for 6 seasons. There is a new Civic Type R on sale, so maybe Team Dynamics could bring that to the BTCC.

If Laser Tools want to stay with RWD, I guess their options are either to try and buy BMWs (if you can't beat them, join them) or maybe bring a brand like Audi back to the BTCC? The Audi RS 3 could be a good fit.

From a more general POV. Team HARD could probably build more CUPRAs too, but given those cars have a relative lack of performance, I can't imagine Laser Tools would be massively interested in them. I also wonder if Motorbase, Speedworks, and Excelr8 would sell the Focus, Corolla, and i30N to other teams.

Some cars that would seem to logically fit the regulations - '22 Audi RS 3, '22 Vauxhall Astra, '22 Honda Civic Type R, 3rd-gen Peugeot 308, VW Golf Mk8, Alfa Romeo Giulia

Some wildcards - the '21 Volvo V60/S60, Jaguar XE, the Mercedes-Benz A-Class/B-Class/C-Class, Renault Megane, KIA Ceed/Proceed.

Also, I'm not sure if any of the current MINI range is the correct dimensions? From memory, the MINI Hatch 5-door, and Clubman look about right.
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 19:48 (Ref:4127408)   #269
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I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.
I would expect one of the 5 being used by HARD. to become available at the end of the year. With the Infiniti being 'retired', Parfitt will probably have a serious think about where his future lies.

I think the most likely source of a TBL is the one currently behind the HARD./Laser/Steelworks/Infiniti/Parfitt entry.

If Parfitt does stay - I think he is clear that he would want to be in a RWD car. That only really leaves the BMW (unless something new comes around).
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Old 25 Sep 2022, 20:19 (Ref:4127410)   #270
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I would expect one of the 5 being used by HARD. to become available at the end of the year. With the Infiniti being 'retired', Parfitt will probably have a serious think about where his future lies.

I think the most likely source of a TBL is the one currently behind the HARD./Laser/Steelworks/Infiniti/Parfitt entry.

If Parfitt does stay - I think he is clear that he would want to be in a RWD car. That only really leaves the BMW (unless something new comes around).
I agree that that license is probably the most likely to change hands. It is worth saying that that TBL and one other TBL currently used by Team HARD are "owned" by Carl Boardley Motorsport and then loaned out to Team HARD to use [https://www.btcc.net/2021/12/02/next...ers-announced/].

When we get told (probably in December) of the license holders for 2023, that will probably indicate who we will see and where. I would expect a couple of changes of license holders, especially as MB have 0 licenses of their own at the moment.
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