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Old 3 Feb 2007, 12:27 (Ref:1832519)   #61
driftwood
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So we assume this is LM3 ((Thomson chassis with lola corners) car from 1977 updated
LM4 does not exist till later then?
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 12:29 (Ref:1832520)   #62
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If that's the case, we don't have enough cars. Two 1977 models maybe?
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 12:38 (Ref:1832526)   #63
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think i need to talk to de Cad
waiting for a contact # for him
ironically my spanner man delivered a car to kensington garage last week and de cad rode past ( leg in plaster on a moped!) stopped and asked about the car but my man was too shy ( or slow) to mention my car body / get tel # !!

He is now cleaning out the toilet and will soon be painting the floor with a toothbrush
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 16:49 (Ref:1832634)   #64
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Please, dont trust french journalist ! Especially about Echappement in 1979 for "international" races ! I know what i am talking about !
(who sign the the preview ?)
At this time they took information, without ask anybody. The main problem was at this time that nobody care about chassis number. I still persist on my story. Please print it and show it to De Cadenet or Birrane or Dorset Birchenghou...

One relaible source could be the Annuel 79 from Teissedre and Moity (I lost these books...) I know these guys they are the most reliable guys about Le Mans.
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 17:28 (Ref:1832650)   #65
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I have made list of De cad lolas from 75-85 with small fotos
the 1978 LM entry is the query
i cannot find foto of car no 9 entered by De Cad for Cooper
it was DNQ
was this a duel entry for the same car so that cooper could test LM track to buy the car later and get favourable entry for 1979 LM?
Taken from a webs listing for 79 results

15 8 Alain de Cadenet, GBDe Cadenet Lola T380 - Ford Cosworth DFV ADC/77 /1 LM3 Thompson chassis Lola corners Alain de Cadenet, GBChris Craft, GB 2993 V8 6 2733729.570



DQ/DNF 12 Simon Phillips Racing with BATCO France, GBDe Cadenet Lola T380 - Ford Cos. DFV Lola T380 HU1 LM2 Nick Faure, GBJohn Beasley, USASimon Phillips, GBMartin Raymond, GB 2993 V8 6 14h Accident, disqualifed

DNQ 9 Alain de Cadenet, GBDe Cadenet LM76 Lola T380 - Ford Cosworth DFV what car is this Peter Lovett, GBJohn Cooper, GBBob Evans, GB 2993 V8

Last edited by driftwood; 3 Feb 2007 at 17:30.
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 17:44 (Ref:1832662)   #66
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wasn't trying to make a point with that quote. I was just adding some new information.

I still believe we need more contemporary reports to make sense of all this.
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 18:10 (Ref:1832672)   #67
driftwood
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I have found cooper car foto for 1978 LM that DNQ
there are 2 De Cad LM3 cars and the BAT car is Lola T380 LM2 car all at 1978 LM
also found 79 LM Cooper entry foto
So what happened to the 2nd LM3 car?
which 1 did Dorset get?
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 18:25 (Ref:1832681)   #68
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Grand Prix International No 83 21 Jun 1984 p56: "The ADA-Ford is without question the oldest car in the field at the 1984 Le Mans race. It's in fact nothing more than a metamorphosis of the antique de Cadenet 2 litre Lola from 1974, transformed for this occasion into a car of the C2 class. Already entered in 1982 and 1983 by ADA ..."

However, Briggs (p272) says it was "based largely on the chassis of an old 2 litre open-top Group 6 Lola showcar - circa 1974", adding "contrary to what has been written in some quarters, the monocoque was not from one of Alan de Cadenet's Le mans challengers" and that the Lola tub "could boast no racing history".
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 18:53 (Ref:1832704)   #69
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Sorry guys, I repost the story just because i think the trth is in it !
Please dont trust old reports of the race. Because french journalist was only interested in the winners during all these years (and a lot of them was not able to speak english except Jabby Crombac, but he was not interested about De Cadenet's cars !

Last year in Le Mans , i spoke with my friend J M Tesseidre (Auto Hebdo and Yearbook Le Mans) He said to me that the De Cadenet story was unclear, even for him, because De Cadenet do not speak too much about how the cars was made...

You can find pictures on Lolahistory and Motorlegend Forum...

Even ACO entry list are sometimes wrong ! I know what i am talking about , I work for ACO every year since 15 years making The Official Entry List Book !

LM1 is the Duckhams ! and was not a Lola, but a Gordon Murray’s based on a BT33 components. The car ran Le Mans in 72 and 73 as a Duckhams then in 1974 as a green De Cadenet, with a look alike Ferrari 312 PB body. the car became the Colin Hawker DFVW in 1975 with a VW Variant Body shell. The car still exist and have been restored with the 1973 look (without the long tail which was the 1972 body style)

LM2 is T380 HU01 ran by De Cadenet at Le mans in 75 with a nearly standart body work (number 4) and then modified in 76 to run Le Mans (number 12); the car had a bulb nose.
In 77, the car was sold to Dorset Racing, and enter Le Mans with a Alain De Cadenet entry. The Dorset fail to qualify (number 6). Tony Birchenough from the Dorset was at the wheel with Simon Philips.
In 78, the car was entered as a De Cadenet Lola T380 by Simon Philips. It was the Bat Car still with a bulb nose, with Martin raymond at the wheel.
In 79, the car was entered as a Lola T286 (!!!!!!) still with a bulb nose, by Fison Agricole - Simon Phillip.
The car was then sold and is now in Scandinavia private collection.

LM3 is believed to be ADC77/01 built by Alain De Cadenet with Lola corners
It appears in Le Mans as number 5 in 1977.
In 78, three cas was entered, so one of them was a new one (LM2, LM3 and the new LM4).
LM2 was the Bat Car.
LM3 and LM4 was entered by Alain De Cadenet himself (only because of ACO regulation)
Number 8 for him and Craft (ACO said De Cadenet Lola T380 !, ADC said De Cadenet Lola 76/77 !) This car was the new LM4 also call ADC 78/01
Number 9 for Cooper Lovett Evans (ACO said De Cadenet Lola LM ! ADC said De Cadenet Lola 75/77) who fail to qualify was LM3.

In 1979, also three cars :
LM2 was the Fisons car (number 15)
John Cooper Racing entered a Lola T281 SG (number 3) for him and Lovett and Morrison. The car was white with a big red cross. This car was LM3.
T281 does not exist as a Lola, SG mean St Georges ? (ACO guys are stupid !)
We thing, according to John Morrison, that LM3 was not part of the "official" De Cadenet team.
Alain entered the number 8 as De Cadenet LM and it was LM4


In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 and it was LM4
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. It was LM3.
This car according to the ACO scruteneening form is De Cadenet SLG 781 and was built in 1978; http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?i...to066ooit4.jpg
So the mystery is a bout the significant of SLG 781 (we have already a mysterious GLC 913 !)
S ?
L for Lola or Len
G still for Gordon ?
Or it is a Thompson reference ?
The previous year the car was entered as Lola SG 281 and i think the ACO made a mistake in 1979 (the 2, was only on typewriter paper !).
78 for the year and 1 for the first chassis ?


In 1981 : two cars
Alain entered the number 20 with Belga livery (Murry Smith , the team manager for the car (?) ) said it was a car from 78 named De Cadenet LM, ACO also it’s a De Cadenet LM !) The car had a 3300 DFV for testing only. This car was LM4. This car was purchased in 1985 by "pinguino" who ran it in some event, and then sold it to Martin Biranne. Everybody saw it at Le Mans Classic 2006, with a chassis dataplate GLC 913.
The mystery is now only about this chassis plate :
G for Gordon Murray ?
L for Len Bailey or Lola (Lola suspension)?
C for Cadenet ?
913 (what is this number for ?)
I think this car is LM4 or ADC78/01. That means that Alain used the new car back in 1978 !

Dorset Racing bought LM3 from Nick Faure and entered it as number 21 for Faure, Candy, Birranne. The car had a 3000 DFV and was De Cadenet LM for ACO ! This car was Number 23 in DRM Zolder 1982. Dorset Racing sold it to Ray Mallock and the car became the first Ecosse Group C . Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain. The car was totally destroyed in a crash. The original body of LM3 car was put on a T390 chassis and displayed at the Rosso Bianco Museum. Driftwwod bought the chassis and he is now the proud owaner of a true De Cadenet body ! (thanks to him)


We are sure is that there is only two De Cadenet still existing :
The LM1 Duckams and LM4 the Martin Birrane’s car (GLC 913)
Also it exist LM2 (the Lola T380 HU01) somewhere in Scandinavia.


About the ADA Minor :
The car is believed built by Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact. The car seems to be know destroyed after a polish guy fit a Porsche engines and a Mazda engines in it. He crashed the car.

Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)

The pictures and this story has been updated by Lolafan on his website
http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory/
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 18:56 (Ref:1832706)   #70
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In 1978 : 3 entry LM2 bat Car, LM3 Cooper, LM4 De cadenet
In 1979 : 3 entries LM2 Fisons, LM3 Cooper (Morrison) , LM 4 De Cadenet
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 19:15 (Ref:1832730)   #71
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Is that an update to your last post? I can't see the changes.

As I've said before, your story clashes with the account in Briggs. Also, could you provide the sources for some of your assertions? For example you say that the 1981 #20 was 'LM4' and that 'LM3' was sold to Dorset Racing for 1977 but don't say how you have established these facts.

I have in front of me Autosport's previews and reports from the 1977 and 1978 Le Mans. Do you have access to these?

Allen
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 19:17 (Ref:1832734)   #72
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For example: Autosport 8 Jun 1978 p45: "The 1977 De Cadenet Lola is now owned by Peter Lovett and prepared to the latest specs".
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 19:55 (Ref:1832760)   #73
AMICALEMANS
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It is a repost without modification.

I know how things goes in Le Mans :
If you enter a car, you can give the car, the name you want !
Many example thru years, include Lola MG for Highcroft racing and MG Lola for official car despite the Highcroft racing Lola MG had a chassis number from MG !

The Eagle was a Corvette built by Lola

The ACR was a Lola chassis

In 76, it was a Alpine Renault AND in 77 a Renault Alpine

In 1980, Rondeau do not win Le Mans because the car was officially on the Entry list registred as an ITT-Oceanic !

So what i mean, is that, if the guy who entered LM2 was in good terms with Alain, he entered as a de Cadenet, if he was not he entered as a Lola (the Fisons car according to the entry list an official ACO paper was not a De Cadenet, despite the fact that ADC entered the car in 1976 as a De Cadenet !

LM3 was entered as a De Cadenet in 77 by AdC and in 78 as a de Cadenet Numer 9 (DNQ Cooper Lovett Car), but in 79 THE SAME car (because of the driver Lovett !) was a Lola 281 SG (because i think, Cooper or Lovett do not want to refer as De Cadenet ! because some trouble maybe with De Cadenet as Morrison, the third driver, told us in a previous post ! Just have a look of the official paper of the entry http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/sho...t=27067&page=5

Sorry for them, but do not trust the magazine, because at this time they have been more interested to the race and not to the Chassis number !
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 19:58 (Ref:1832762)   #74
AMICALEMANS
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AMICALEMANS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No journalist was interested at this time by DNQ cars ! Nobody want to read a story about a looser, in a preview or a report of the race.
That is why now it is difficult for "historian".
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Old 3 Feb 2007, 22:03 (Ref:1832855)   #75
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AMICALEMANS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It was Knight Hawk Racing for Lola MG ! so sorry
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